The Powerful Journey Transforming Pain Management in Medical Sales
In this episode of the Medical Sales Podcast, host Samuel Adeyinka sits down with Alex Kinsel, a medical device rep specializing in noninvasive pain management within the VA system. Alex breaks down how his electrotherapy technology works, how it helps veterans reduce chronic pain, improve mobility, and reclaim their daily lives, and what it takes to sell into an integrated delivery network like the VA. From navigating bureaucracy and building clinician trust to educating patients and driving long term outcomes, Alex shares a transparent look at the hunter mindset required to win in this space. He also opens up about his personal journey into medical device sales, the impact of patient follow up, and why purpose driven selling is the key to lasting success in healthcare.
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Transcription:
Samuel Adeyinka (Host):
Hello, and welcome to the Medical Sales Podcast. I’m your host, Samuel, the founder of a revolutionary medical sales training and mentorship program called the Medical Sales Career Builder. And I’m also host of the Medical Sales Podcast.
On this podcast, I interview top medical sales reps and leading medical sales executives across the entire world. It doesn’t matter what medical sales industry, from medical device to pharmaceutical to genetic testing and diagnostic lab. You name it. You will learn how to either break into the industry, be a top 10 percent performer within your role, or climb the corporate ladder.
Welcome to the Medical Sales Podcast. And remember, I am a medical sales expert sharing my own opinion about this amazing industry and how it can change your life.
Samuel Adeyinka (Host):
Alex, how are we doing today?
Alex Kinsel (Guest):
I’m great. It’s Friday, it’s like 64 degrees in Georgia, and I love it. It feels like fall, but it’s spring still. So you know.
Samuel Adeyinka (Host):
Living the good life, man. Okay, so please tell us who you are and what you do.
Alex Kinsel (Guest):
My name is Alex Kinsel. I do medical device sales. I specialize in non-invasive pain management primarily for the VA here in Georgia, in Atlanta.
We have a very populated system. Within the VA itself, I primarily work with anesthesia and pain management, neurology, physical medicine and rehabilitation, physical therapy, and some orthopedics.
Something else being done in Atlanta that I’ve been able to work on is something called community care.
We have a million veterans in the Atlanta area and a shortage of providers. So we have clinics that do workers comp and private insurance, and they get contracted through the VA. If one of my providers in pain management can’t see a veteran, they’ll refer out to a contracted clinic, and that’s also something I support in my role.
Samuel Adeyinka (Host):
Got it. So let’s lay the land for all our listeners.
Non-invasive pain management. Describe exactly what that is, and give us context on who you’re calling on. Is it more hospital, more clinic, what type of devices, what type of products. Give us the lay of the land.
Alex Kinsel (Guest):
Let’s start with the integrated delivery network, which is what the VA is.
In that network, there are departments like pain management, neurology, and the other specialties we listed.
I have the device sitting next to me. I can show it on screen.
Samuel Adeyinka (Host):
Yeah. Show it. Let’s have a look.
Alex Kinsel (Guest):
This is the carrying case. This is the briefcase.
It’s a sequential stimulator with intersperse. If you’ve ever seen DJ controls, these are channels.
There are electrodes, and I’m going to go ahead and get the product out.
This is the stimulator. The box. All the electricity, the waveforms, and what’s being sent through the tissue resides in here.
Samuel Adeyinka (Host):
Okay. Describe it for those that are not watching as well.
Alex Kinsel (Guest):
For those that are not watching, say you wake up tomorrow and you’ve done something to your back, and you can’t even get out of bed.
This device has a cable attachment that runs the cords. We use a brochure for patients, and we’re talking about the lower back.
These are electrodes. If you’ve seen a TENS unit before, like the ones you can buy online, it’s similar in concept.
But the waveform and the technology we have a patent on is different. And we have four channels, so we can treat a larger surface area.
A lot of TENS units are two channels. You have to cross the pads so the waveforms connect in the middle of the target nerves and muscles. This allows broader coverage and a different experience.
Samuel Adeyinka (Host):
So I’m laid out, I’m in pain, I turn on the TV. Tell me how this device comes in and changes my life. What’s happening?
Alex Kinsel (Guest):
Next, I want to show you the garment. That’s a big part of why this works.
If you’re on your back, it’s hard to get everything on by yourself. So we have garments that make it easier.
This one is like a jacket or vest. Everything is strapped and wired through it, and you take the plug and connect it directly to the device.
It’s rechargeable too, like an iPhone dock.
Then you turn it on. It’s a 35-minute treatment.
Samuel Adeyinka (Host):
And what does it do?
Alex Kinsel (Guest):
The 35 minutes is broken into three parts.
Segment one is pain relief. You bring up channel one, then channel two, then three, then four, and you take it to a point where the stimulation is almost too much. Then you go two steps below that, and that’s the sweet spot.
That first segment feels very therapeutic. Veterans will say it feels really good.
Segment two is muscle stimulation. It’s a different waveform and more of an electrical pinch. It’s common muscle stim, but you have to go slow.
Once you find a comfortable setting, you feel it come on for five seconds and go away for five seconds. You’re activating different muscle types.
Then segment three is the bread and butter. The intersperse portion.
Once you get to segment three, you hit the arrows and it takes the two intensity levels from segment one and segment two and transfers them into the third treatment, which is 25 minutes.
Now you’re basically done and you can watch football.
You get a five-second muscle contraction, then it goes away, and then you’re bathed in that pain relief stimulation.
My analogy is lifting weights. Imagine you do a five-second bicep curl and fully activate the muscles, then as you relax, it’s like a massage therapist comes in so you can do another rep. You’re managing the nerves and numbing the pain enough to keep moving.
That’s the layman’s explanation of what the product does.
Samuel Adeyinka (Host):
Okay, I’ve got so many questions.
Going back to me on the couch watching the game. I put this on, I do my 35 minutes, and when it ends, what’s the difference. What can I do now that I couldn’t do before?
Alex Kinsel (Guest):
That is a great question. We’re going to get into the anatomy and physiology.
But first, we need to talk indications. We care about eight indications.
We have chronic pain and acute pain.
We have reduction of muscle spasms.
We have muscle re-education.
We have prevention of disuse atrophy.
We have range of motion.
I’m blanking on the other two right now, but the first four are the most important because we’re not only providing pain relief, we’re breaking up muscle spasms in muscles that aren’t firing.
When you’re in pain, you’re not rehabbing it. That’s where things go from bad to worse.
At the end of the 35 minutes, I always tell patients, stretch.
What gets released is your endogenous opiate system. You get an endorphin response.
It’s acting on the brain, on your fight-or-flight response. When you have so much pain you can’t move, the device causes a response from the brain that helps you move by giving you the “feel good” chemicals.
It’s like if a cheetah is chasing you and you sprain your ankle. You’re not going to feel that ankle in the moment. It hits you later.
That’s the short answer.
Samuel Adeyinka (Host):
I hope you’re enjoying today’s episode. And I want to let you know our programs cover the entire career of a medical sales professional, from getting into the medical sales industry to training on how to be a top performer in medical sales, to masterfully navigating your career to executive-level leadership.
These programs are personalized and customized for your specific career and background, and trained by over 50 experts, including surgeons.
Our results speak for themselves, and we’re landing positions for our candidates in less than 120 days in top medical technology companies like Stryker, Medtronic, Merck, Abbott. You name it.
Would you run an Ironman race without training and strategy. You wouldn’t. So why are you trying to do the same with a medical sales position.
You need training. You need a strategy. Visit evolveyoursales.com. Fill out the application, schedule some time with one of our account executives, and let’s get you into the position that you’ve always dreamed of.
Samuel Adeyinka (Host):
What is the expectation here.
If I have chronic back pain and this device allows me to get up and not feel pain the same way, and it allows me to rehab, is the expectation that I’ll have it for a couple months, rehab during those months, and then the pain is curtailed. Or how does it work?
Alex Kinsel (Guest):
It depends on the VA, because VAs are different.
Many VAs buy it for patients to take home.
What I love about this company, and I think every DME company should do this, is we do 30-day and 60-day follow ups for new providers when they’re running pilots.
We measure outcomes during patient education. While the patient is doing the treatment, I ask what their pain level was when they came in.
Then I ask how that pain interferes with daily activities.
I ask about muscle spasms and tightness. For patients with severe pain, they might have to get in a certain position so the nerves aren’t being pinched just to grab something like a bottle.
Then we ask about sleep, because sleep is so important, especially with veterans who might have other issues affecting it.
I also ask about mood, especially if they have a loved one there who can answer honestly.
And stress too, because cortisol can amplify pain.
Then 30 days later, our customer support specialists follow up, and sometimes I do too, depending on what I’m working on.
That’s the best part of my job.
I had a patient go from a ten to a one. Interference with activity went from nine to one. Across the board.
I took that win and shared it with everyone involved, because that’s one of those moments where you know you’re in the right field.
Samuel Adeyinka (Host):
So after that kind of improvement, do they keep the device indefinitely. Or do they no longer need it.
Alex Kinsel (Guest):
They keep it. Life happens.
You can go from a ten to a one, but flare ups happen. That’s the short answer.
Part of why I got into medical device sales is I had hip replacement surgery at 21 during Covid. I didn’t do much rehab. I was young and thought I’d bounce back.
But my doctor told me I’d go from 100 percent muscle mass to zero. That’s fine for older patients, but for someone younger it creates imbalance.
My left leg is about a half inch shorter than my right leg.
So veterans keep the device as a fail safe. If life is going well and they’re back, great. But if something pops up and there are no contraindications, they take it out and use it.
Some even use it before activities like rock climbing.
It can be preventive and it can be treatment management.
Samuel Adeyinka (Host):
When you have this device and technology changes over time, do patients think, I need the update. Or are they just happy with what they have.
Alex Kinsel (Guest):
It depends.
If you’ve had it for a couple years and there’s an update, or you sprain your ankle and it stops working as well, or the battery gets cold and acts like a car battery, we have warranties.
They go through their provider portal. The provider can message prosthetics, which is essentially the purchasing department for the VA.
They can message me as well. The patient is already in the system.
We also supply a year’s worth of electrodes. Those run out. Garments can wear out too. Garments also get updated.
I have low back and full body garments, and we have a shoulder garment too, which is a little tricky to use.
I’m hoping we get a knee wrap soon.
Samuel Adeyinka (Host):
Let’s talk about the sell of this product.
Because what I’m hearing is you need real patient buy in.
It’s not just you selling to the clinician and the clinician saying, “This is great, I’m going to use it.” The patient has to want it too.
So talk to us about your day to day. When you wake up and go do your job, where are you going. Who are you talking to. Patients, doctors, staff, decision makers. How does it all work.
Alex Kinsel (Guest):
That’s where I want to talk about my archetype as a medical salesperson.
I’d say my archetype is hunter.
You can hunt all you want in medical device and be successful. But what I remember as a hunter is I have a wounded person with me.
So everything I do, whether I’m talking to a chief of a department at the VA level, or a janitor, or a medical assistant, or a nurse, or a receptionist, if they can give me information that helps a patient get a device I know will work for them, that matters.
I don’t represent something that doesn’t work. And if there’s something better, I want them to have the best option.
My schedule changes Monday through Thursday.
Typically I’m out the door by 8. I might have a one-on-one at 9.
Then it’s a clinic here, lunch here, a patient instruction or trial here.
I’m lucky because I’m in Atlanta. Traffic is terrible, but I’m not driving across the state. There are always enough veterans and enough need in Atlanta to stay busy.
My day typically ends around 3 p.m.
One thing I’m working on personally is organization and scheduling, because a hunter doesn’t like to sit down and document everything. The admin side and CRM side is something I’m actively improving.
Samuel Adeyinka (Host):
It sounds like there’s flexibility in your role because you have to hunt for business, and it’s still W2.
But I want a clearer picture on patients versus clinicians versus decision makers. How do you get in front of patients. What does that look like.
Alex Kinsel (Guest):
I was lucky when I was hired because my regional manager had already laid groundwork and had two providers within pain management.
One was a nurse practitioner and one was a doctor of physical therapy.
He gave me access to the VA. And access is the biggest thing because if you walk into a VA without an appointment, they’ll tell you to get out.
We call it having a seated territory.
Once you have a territory, you take relationships you already have and leverage them and nurture them.
If you nurture your providers’ patients, that’s how you get to the patients first.
Then you do follow up assessments, and you see them and get to know them.
Then you can expand. You can say, I want to talk to neurology because we help with diabetic neuropathies. Who do I talk to.
Sometimes the provider doesn’t know, but they know an MA or someone in that department.
If the MA can’t solve it, they can connect you to the office manager.
Then you set up an in-service or a launch within the VA, but it’s slow and arduous because everyone is busy.
Samuel Adeyinka (Host):
Fort Knox over there. I’m familiar.
So with the MA and office manager, you’re trying to get access to another clinician or schedule a meeting.
Alex Kinsel (Guest):
Exactly.
I’m trying to schedule something for people on a team, or get them into a conference room with a projector.
It’s usually a short presentation, 20 to 30 minutes. That helps because it doesn’t take their whole day.
Samuel Adeyinka (Host):
And it’s typically a pain management physician.
Alex Kinsel (Guest):
It can be.
If I’m trying to break into neurology, I’ll explain that we have indications for those patients too and ask who I should speak with.
The MA, nurse, or LPN can direct me to the next contact point.
Samuel Adeyinka (Host):
Do you always end up talking to a decision maker in the hierarchy, or does it hover around clinicians.
Alex Kinsel (Guest):
I have.
That trophy moment I mentioned was the biggest moment of my career. The chief of pain was a young guy, and the VA is broken up into networks.
He was the chief of pain not just for Atlanta but across multiple areas. That was true bureaucracy level access.
But typically, the office is a proxy.
We meet during lunch, or I catch someone between patients, hand them my card, and follow up later.
I realized there are no real parameters on what a meeting can look like in medical sales.
Sometimes it’s just a conversation.
Samuel Adeyinka (Host):
I hope you enjoyed today’s episode. And remember, I have a customized and personalized program that gets you into the medical technology industry as a sales professional, or any type of role for that matter.
Become a top performer in your position and masterfully navigate your career to executive-level leadership. Check out these programs and learn more by visiting our site.
Fill out an application, schedule time with one of our account executives, and allow us to get you where you need to be.
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