Unlock the secrets to building trust-based relationships in medical sales and elevate your career in orthopedics with insights from Dr. Diego Lima of Atlantis Orthopedics. Dr. Lima takes us through his journey from medical school to becoming a prominent orthopedic surgeon, emphasizing the critical role of teamwork and meticulous planning. We’ll explore the structured yet unpredictable nature of his workweek, where he juggles office days, surgeries, and research projects while managing a cohesive team that ensures smooth operations.
Discover the vital dynamics between surgeons and medical device representatives as Dr. Lima shares personal experiences that underscore the importance of proactive communication and teamwork. He discusses how the best reps anticipate workflow disruptions and offer immediate solutions, highlighting the necessity of building strong, trust-based relationships. New reps looking to establish themselves will find invaluable advice on persistence, reliability, and the significance of being a consistent and helpful presence over time.
Gain a deeper understanding of the multifaceted responsibilities of medical sales reps in the world of orthopedic surgery. Dr. Lima passionately shares his experiences mentoring new reps, emphasizing the impact they can have on the mood and flow of the operating room. We also look ahead to the evolving dynamics between surgeons and reps, considering the potential impact of technology and the need for companies to support innovative reps who drive business growth. This episode is brimming with essential insights for anyone in or aspiring to enter the medical sales industry.
Meet the guest:
Dr. Diego Lima is a highly skilled and accomplished orthopedic surgeon with expertise in various subspecialties, including shoulder and elbow surgery, adult reconstruction surgery, and sports medicine. With extensive training and experience, he performs a wide range of surgeries, including shoulder and elbow arthroplasty and arthroscopy, primary and complex cases, adult hip arthroplasty and fractures, and sports-related injuries involving the pectoralis, triceps, biceps, quadriceps, patellar, and Achilles tendons.
Dr. Lima is a member of the esteemed American Association of Orthopedic Surgeons (AAOS), further highlighting his commitment to professional excellence and staying at the forefront of advancements in orthopedic surgery.
Get to know more about Dr. Diego Lima and book an appointment –
https://www.palmbeachshoulderdoc.com/
Food and Resto – Branzino on a crusty crust at AVA Mediterraegean, https://www.avamediterraegean.com/reserve
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Episode Transcript
00:07 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Hello and welcome to the Medical Sales Podcast. I’m your host, Samuel, founder of a revolutionary medical sales training and mentorship program called the Medical Sales Career Builder, and I’m also host of the Medical Sales Podcast. In this podcast, I interview top medical sales reps and leading medical sales executives across the entire world. It doesn’t matter what medical sales industry from medical device to pharmaceutical, to genetic testing and diagnostic lab you name it you will learn how to either break into the industry, be a top 10% performer within your role or climb the corporate ladder. Welcome to the Medical Sales Podcast and remember, I am a medical sales expert, sharing my own opinion about this amazing industry and how it can change your life. Hello and welcome to the Medical Sales Podcast. I’m your host, Samuel, and today we have with us another special guest, and he goes by the name of Dr Diego Lima. He’s an orthopedic surgeon out of Palm Beach, florida, at Atlantis Orthopedics. He’s been practicing since 2014 and he has so much experience in orthopedics, and today we get into the dynamic between orthopedic surgeons, sales reps and the associate sales rep. This is an episode that, if you’re an associate sales rep, you have to listen. If you’re an orthopedic sales rep, this is an episode that if you’re an associate sales rep, you have to listen, if you’re an orthopedic sales rep, you have to listen, and if you’re someone that’s thinking about being, either, you absolutely have to listen.
01:32
Packed with information that you won’t find anywhere else, and this is what we always try to do here at the Medical Sales Podcast. So, as always, I really do hope you enjoy this interview. So, yeah, so you know, this is what I’m thinking, man. What if we talk about let’s talk about the issues you see with new reps Like, let’s just get into it. Let’s talk about what it’s like for you, what you need as a surgeon, and what are some of the issues you see and why you believe a program would be so helpful for them that can kind of coach them on these things. Um, and let’s just see where it takes us. And, of course, we’ll talk about your history and all that. But what do you think?
02:15 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
well, I think it’s a good idea. Yeah, I, um, I don’t think the um younger reps, they, they want more time and they want to practice more and they learn as they go. So having that time set aside for them to practice and then truly understand what’s important in that business, I think it’s going to be key. So that’s a really good selling point to have them doing the program.
02:51 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay, okay, good, okay, perfect, All right. So let’s kick this off. Dr Lima, you know how long have you been practicing surgery?
03:02 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
Well, I graduated from medical school in 2010,. Got into residency in 11. So my first actually my first surgeries were obviously during medical school, but I’ve been in orthopedics and scrubbing in and thinking orthopedics since. I’ve been scrubbing in and thinking orthopedic since God, I’d say 2008. So it’s a big part of my life at this point, so think about this 16 years thinking about this nonstop, Even during medical school.
03:40
I knew already what I wanted, so I truly focused on that area and basically I left the minimum amount of attention to everything else Makes perfect sense.
03:56 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
You know, I think one thing I don’t think is talked about when it comes to medical sales is the actual lifestyle of the surgeon. So now I’m talking orthopedic sales and I’m talking to you, orthopedic surgeon. Walk us through your day. You know when are you getting up, what’s on your mind, what are you trying to accomplish? Each day? Is every day the same? Give us, give us the lifestyle of, of the orthopedic surgeon.
04:23 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
All right. In general I’d say 80 to 90% of my week are the same every week as in. I know which days I’m in the office all day. I know which days I’m in the OR all day. But that 20 to 10% is the urgencies and emergencies that comes in and obviously you can’t truly plan for those things. But you can set aside time for that.
04:51
So for me, usually when I’m at the office I know I’m going to start working on my site projects while I’m in between seeing patients. So I’m seeing patients, so I have 10, 15 minutes here. So I got side projects that you know, such as this one that we’re working together. It’s something that I put efforts into it. Like I said, I do my own research, so those things take time. It’s not about just leaving the house seeing patients, then going into the OR doing surgery and coming back home. As soon as I get home comes right back to my office and then start working on my own research and other projects. I want to take off the paper and when it’s an office day it’s kind of like planned already throughout the day with all those patients. I have a really good team that works with me and knows what I’m thinking, how I’m thinking, and then it becomes seamless. At the office and in the OR I try to do the same thing. I try to work with the same team every time, and that is very particular because that’s the highlight of the week. So I know my week is going to be office, office, surgery, office. I know the surgery will be the highlight, so I plan, I set aside time weeks before or the week before to plan how that day is going to go for me to focus on the truly important things and by having a great team things and by having a great team, I’m able to delegate and have them being an integral part of my day. And that sets me at ease because I know I trust them, they’re working well with me, I give them whatever they need to do their tasks, they’re on top of their game, and then the day just flies by without any issues.
06:48
It’s uh, you know, to me that’s the main thing. So it typically starts, you know, a few days before we communicate, we have a few cases coming up. Uh, we need to make sure we got the proper implants. I always plan my cases ahead of time to know exactly what I’m going to need plan a, b, c and d. So it’s interesting because people that are used to working with me, if I tell them, hey, listen, we got this case coming up, um, this is what I’m planning. Uh, most of them they ask, yeah, and what’s plan b? Right, because they know I’m already thinking about plan B and then plan C. And that’s comforting to hear because I know they’re thinking ahead, right.
07:31 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So what time, would you say? Your days are starting most usually Well it starts around 4, 4.30 am.
07:40 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
Yeah, so I wake up early, right. So because we got a lot of things to do at work, there are other things that I want to do besides work, right. So for me it starts with I study a different language, so right now I’m studying Italian. I did that in the past, a few years ago, with Spanish. So once I became fluent, I was able to see my own patients without a translator in the room, and now that that’s what I do and that created that opened a whole new avenue for me to see more patients, because some of my partners would not speak Spanish and if the patient went to see them, they’ll be uncomfortable seeing a physician that would not speak their language. They would ask is there anyone that does the same thing but speaks my language and understands what I’m going through and I’m able to express myself? And most of the time that’s what they want to do. They want to be able to express themselves in their native language and feel understood, and you can lose some of that with translation.
08:48
Right has nothing to do with bedside manner or the competence of that position. It’s, it’s some, it’s a, it’s a thing that if you, if you’re, if your native language is something else than English. You would be able to experience that by going to a physician. You know, my native language is Portuguese and I’m a patient too. I’m not just a surgeon. And by going to an American surgeon even though I have the knowledge, I’m able to express myself in English really well with technical terms it’s different when you see someone that recognize and able to understand your culture in your language. So that is that is important. That was important for me to understand that that was something that could bring more value to my practice. And I did that in Spanish.
09:42
And now here in Palm Beach, where we are, there’s a good number of people that speak Italian only, and I always had a passion about speaking Italian, so I started studying a few months ago. Very cool, so that’s why. So I do that early in the morning, after that I go to the gym. So then I already hit two things in my to-do list, which you know sets my mind to like all right, we’re winning already. Now it’s time to do the surgery. Since the surgery is already planned, it’s a matter of executing everything. So the whole day is about executing executing everything that we know how to do it and we’re trained to do it, and we already thought about that before.
10:28 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
How many surgeries Go ahead?
10:32 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
No, I was going to say yeah. That could end between, you know, 5 pm to 10 pm sometimes, depending on how many surgeries we have.
10:42 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay, what’s typical.
10:44 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
Typical, I’d say between four and six. That’s the. That’s a typical OR day with big, big surgeries.
10:55 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So when you think about your team and I’m sure part of your team are the medical sales reps you know, think about your ortho rep. You know the ones that talk to us a little bit about, the ones that you would say do the best and do the best, work with you and you really champion them. What are they doing that makes them so valuable to you?
11:18 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
All right. So I’m going to divide this into two aspects. The first aspect is outside the OR. So, outside the OR, they know they have my business, or at least they think they have my business, or we’re going to work together at some point. What they do is they, every week, follow up on which cases we have coming up to be prepared, right, they also have to plan their week. They also have to plan their days, thinking if I have two surgeons going at the same time, what am I going to do? Right? So if we have a good flow and we’re doing cases every week, I think it’s imperative for you to always check, check. Hey, do we have anything next week coming up that I haven’t received an invite yet? Right, those, those are the things that, to me, are valuable because they’re thinking ahead.
12:15
If I’m too busy, for some reason I forgot to mention, or my secretary didn’t send an invite, sure, they’re on it, and that has happened where someone dropped the ball, nobody got an invite. I’m going to a surgery and I call my rep and I say, hey, uh, are we? I’m almost there at the hospital and he’s like well, I’m in colorado. Like what do you mean? You’re in colorado, we have a case in 10 minutes. It’s like I didn’t know we had a case right.
12:47
So to me that is a major ball drop because, first of all, my scheduler forgot to send an invite right. Second, the hospital knew I had a patient coming up with the company that I’m using and didn’t check with a rep, with a company or with my office. Hey, we didn’t receive any information about that. Third of all, the rep didn’t bother to check If we’re doing cases every week and one week I’m not doing a case. He didn’t bother to check. Hey, is he on vacation? He didn’t talk to me about that. We’re a team. So if you’re not thinking that you’re part of the team and you’re constantly passive waiting for things to fall on your lap, I’m not going to use you anymore, because at that point, if that happened, you’re one more checkpoint to avoid a mistake. Right, I’m one. I’m not taking my responsibility out of the equation. I’m saying I need more people that want to help and will help me. Right, that’s what I’m saying.
13:51 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
What do you do in those situations when this happens? I mean, you know the reps in Colorado. You have this case in 10 minutes. How do you mitigate that? What happens?
13:58 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
So it’s a split second decision whether I’m going to get pissed or I’m going to think about a solution. So that happened and this particular case that happened while I was driving from one hospital to another. I was doing an arthroscopic rotator cuff repair and in the back of my mind was immediately I felt okay, the rep’s not there, he can send a colleague and the implants that I need are peel pack, we don’t need trays to be sterilized and we have all the instruments that we need in the hospital. I knew that right. So that’s that’s background knowledge, that I had head and that all this hit me in in a split second that I said call a friend, send him there. If we need to delay the case 10, 15 minutes, we’ll delay the case 10, 15 minutes, but we’re doing the case. And I only thought again about this issue after the surgery. I completely wiped out of my head until I was done with the case. Sure, after I was done, I went back and I said how can I fix that problem?
15:14 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay, Got it. What are some other things that your best reps do?
15:25 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
I was going to make a joke here, but so what they do the best, I think, is they anticipate the workflow really well, and not when things are going the way they’re supposed to. When things don’t go the way they’re supposed to, when they see that I hit a wall, they know already all my steps, and if they see that I’m struggling with one step or I didn’t move on, they know something is off. Immediately I can hear them talking behind my back, not behind my back as in hidden, but like literally behind me, thinking about solutions without me saying a word. So to me that’s like all right, this guy is in my, you know we’re in the same level. And then you know I don’t get stressed out in surgery, something like that happens. I immediately just call him here.
16:31
So-and-so, come here. This is what I’m facing right now. Let’s see what we can do about this or get me this or that, and then immediately there’s someone running and grabbing an instrument or a tray and whatnot. So that level of commitment. It takes a while to get to that point, but you need to want to get to that point. It’s not just about me doing the best of my ability to to make someone to get to that point. They want to get to that point, right.
17:00 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So it’s a combination of things. Would you say that the your best reps? They drive the relationship as opposed to you driving the relationship uh, they, they know so what they?
17:11 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
yeah, they do. But because I, I leave the door open, they, they realize that the door is open and I’m just waiting for them to to step in. And if I don’t see that they’re stepping in, they’re not buying in, then you know it’s not going to work.
17:28 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay, so you mentioned you categorize it initially as outside the OR and within the OR. When you’re talking about outside the OR outside of making sure they’re anticipating what’s going to happen and what surgeries are coming up and what you might need are you speaking to anything else that happens outside the OR?
17:48 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
No, not really. I mean this is, you know, what comes afterwards. It comes with. When you build a relationship, then everything else comes afterwards, right? So they because we spend a lot of time together working sometimes, you know, we go out together after surgery, spend quality time together, and then we talk about business. It’s not, you know, only surgery, we talk about business. So they, we get to the point that they understand what’s valuable to me in terms of my career.
18:23
Sure, and I think that’s important, I’m not there just to do the surgery, I’m thinking long-term. I have a career as a surgeon and there’s many things that we can do as surgeons, not just surgery and seeing patients. Right, there’s relationships that you can build and you can expand your, your business, and they understand that. And they, they’re always on the lookout to bring new opportunities important whether it’s with within their own company, to go to a meeting and learn a different technique, or or to have an opportunity to, to do a talk, because it’s something that I uh like doing it or, um, you know, meeting someone new that you know came to the area and could be a potential, uh, referral source for me. Right, that drives our business, business, and that’s good for me, it’s good for them. So those three things I think it’s important and if you’re not thinking at that level, you’re definitely a beginner.
19:22 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So then you know there’s a notion that if you can befriend your surgeon, let’s just stick with orthopedics. If you can befriend your surgeon and really spend a lot of time with them outside of the OR, like you mentioned, that you’re going to have a much better relationship. Is the reality that you really are? You know your good friends are a lot of reps and you’re going out and you know when you’re doing nothing that has nothing to do with work, you’re spending so much time with these reps. Is that the reality? Or is it more like, every now and again, maybe a dinner here or a meeting there, and most of your interactions are just business.
19:59 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
Well, I’d say it’s 50-50. Some of my reps became my friends, where we hang out, we play golf and go out together, others strictly, or, and for some reason affinity and whatnot, we just don’t do anything else, right? So it’s uh, it’s people as well, right? So it’s not going to be just because we’re working together all the time I don’t want to spend time with, and to me it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s kind of hard, because If I don’t have a good relationship, it will be hard even to be in the old with that person. Like I said, it’s a matter of trust, commitment and it has to match, and if it doesn’t, then you know the flow is not gonna be the same. Nowadays we have so many great companies with phenomenal products that are comparable that you can easily divert from one company to another and continue to reproduce the same thing and using great implants the same way, and then you get to work with someone that you have affinity to.
21:10 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So let’s talk about that new rep. Then you know how does a rep get to a place where they have a strong relationship with you. And I’m going to be more specific. I’m, on introduction, meaning a brand new rep to you. What’s the give us both? Give us the worst way you’ve seen, that go down and what reps shouldn’t do, and give us the most ideal way you would appreciate a rep coming to you A new rep.
21:39 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
So it’s two scenarios A new rep from a new company that I’m not using, that’s the hardest one, because, guess what? No relationship, it’s a new face in front of me, guy has no experience, right? So that’s, that’s super hard. That’s I don’t. I don’t know how a person would do that, but it’s, it’s, it’s possible.
21:59
It’s hard, but I’ve had recently one person that converted me and he was new to the company, new to me, me and he never went away. He was always there and I needed him a few times, here and there, and he would show up and he was always on point. So that person, he basically said I know you’re committed to another company and I know you’re happy with what you’re doing. Here’s what I have. I’m knowledgeable, I can help you with all this. If you need me, just call me.
22:45
And one day I needed him and I called him, he showed up and he was on point. And then the second time I needed him, he showed up and he was on point. And then the second time I needed him, he showed up and he was on point. And the third time. And then time went on until a day that I needed to make a change and in my mind was like, who should I change now this type of business to? And he, he was the first person that came to the back of my mind, right, so let’s go back, let’s go back Because I want to capture that beginning.
23:20 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So you said that he came to you.
23:23 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
he laid out which is good.
23:26 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
I mean, every good representative knows to kind of state what you’re trying to do, eye off the bat, so everybody’s on the same page yeah when you said that he was always there and he and so how much time lapsed between him introducing himself and you actually needing him.
23:41 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
How much time I was, I was waiting for that question two years two two years. Okay, now to convert, to convert my business.
23:50 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
To convert my business okay, okay, okay, but okay, yeah. Two years, how much time between introduction and you needing him meaning oh no, that happened within within a few months okay, right so within a few months. I needed yeah, in those few months, was he seeing you every week? Was he seeing you every week? Was he seeing you every day? Was he giving you phone calls?
24:13 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
No, it was once a month, or every two, three weeks. We would cross each other in the OR, so now it’s a familiar face, gotcha, so he was always interested.
24:27 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
What are you doing?
24:27 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
here. What are you doing? What’s up with this case? And not pushing, not saying, hey, why are you using this? What are you doing? What’s up with this case? And you know, not push it, not saying, hey, why are you using this instead of me? No to me. If you do that, listen, you don’t even know me. All right, bye-bye, right. He was like he was genuinely interested. Hey, let’s build a relationship. I just got here, right. So it got to the point that I’m like all right, I got his demeanor, his well-behaved, respectful. You know it was not just about bringing the implants and trays and whatnot. Like I said, it’s about building a team and have that relationship. And then, you know, I needed him for a few times.
25:10
If you think about two years being a long time for you to convert a physician, a surgeon, from one company to another, this industry is going to be very frustrating because most people tend to use the same thing. Okay, I’m going gonna give you an example. You’re doing a shoulder atheroplasty. Most surgeons, they like one implant in one company. They stick to it. They might vary here and there or they might have two which I’ve done this in the past but they stick with one. So in your mind, if you see surgeons are sticking with one company and it’s not your company and you give up right there, you’re not gonna make it. You need to make sure whoever’s not using you know that you are reliable whenever they need it, because this time will come we know that, I know that right.
26:15
you know you don’t burn bridges with different companies and different reps, or and the other way around you. You shouldn’t do that because at some point you’re going to end up working together, whether it’s short term, midterm or long term, whether it’s going to be something rock solid or just sporadically. So when that time comes, you got to make it happen. And this example was exactly that. This person was always there, you know, generally interested, always polite. Every time I needed, he would be like alright, I can show up and I can bring you this, I can facilitate this and that.
26:54
And then at some point it came to me that I was ready to move on from one company to another Um and um. I was like, all right, who am I going to call? And I have cases coming up. I got to make a decision right now and that’s important. I have to feel comfortable with that person, with the implant Um. So immediately I picked up the phone, called him and I said, hey, it’s time. We’ve got a few cases coming up, let’s see what’s what we can do in the OR, together as a team.
27:27
And his reaction was the best possible. It was like, hey, you’re not going to regret this, we’re going to make it happen. Let’s meet before, go over how you do your things, what you want to do. I want you to feel comfortable. I said, all right, that’s fine, let’s talk. And then we met, you know, went over all the details. Then you know, just by having the feedback you get from people. It’s interesting. I mean you know when someone responds to you and the way they respond. You see what they’re thinking. I mean, at some point you learn that and you see that they’re committed. So that’s what drives me when I’m starting a relationship with them.
28:06 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
That’s fantastic, you know. I want to really spell out the dynamic of what it’s like in the OR for for our listeners, when it comes to the sales rep and the associate sales rep. You know, talk to us a little bit about. What are your expectations from I mean, you gave us some of these sales rep. What are your expectations from the associate sales rep when, when you meet a new one or or you know one’s, in surgery with you? What, what are you wanting them to do? What does good look like?
28:32 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
Talk to us a little bit about that, yeah, and that’s not set in stone, that’s not the whole truth, but I’m going to say what I’m thinking. When I see a new associate coming in along with a main rep, right, first of all, I keep an eye on them to see how they’re behaving towards that rep. Right, first of all, that relationship between them what, what, what that person is trying to, uh, to gather from that rep that is supervising him, right, and how he behaves with everyone else in the oar. Most of the time, in the beginning, they won’t do anything without being told to, and that’s how I think they should do. That’s how we do as medical students.
29:18
First time in the OR, we stand in a corner and we observe until someone says what are you doing there, standing doing nothing, come over here and help us out, right, that is, hey, granted permission, start working. I’m going to teach you. Right, so I see the same thing with them. And then, at some point, when they feel like they’re asking the correct questions to the rep, I invite them over because I want them to feel comfortable, I don’t want them afraid of saying anything in the OR, because they’re in the presence of a surgeon and people that potentially understand what’s going on better than him. I want him to you know, with responsibility and with some notion, to be able to speak up, right? So I invite them over to the same conversation that we’re having.
30:09
Like, I ask questions even though I know they don’t know the answer, but I make them think, I make them be part of the team now if they buy in and they and next time they show me that they were able to do more, they went after answers, they were proactive about everything that happened the day before. That tells me that they want it. Right, I won’t forget that. Right, we do the surgery today and then two days later we’re in the OR again and I do the same thing. Where that person comes in with a different behavior, much more proactive and trying to do more. Hey, to me that’s a win, right? And then, if I see that that person is going too far, I find a way to say, hey, there’s a line you can stop right there. Right, in a way that make them think well, I need more knowledge to be able to go beyond this line.
31:10 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Give us an example of what that looks like.
31:12 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
Okay. So first time in the OR I see the associate asking questions to the rep. I’m ready to pull up an implant or decide on which size of an implant I should use and then, trying to bring that person into the conversation, I ask directly that person Call out their name, say Samuel, what do you think I should use here? I got this and this scenario Intro up and they’ll be like well, maybe you should. And then they say whatever, because they don’t want to say I don’t know, right. And I said, fine, if I do that, that I might go to jail, right? So that becomes a joke and everyone laughs and it would break the ice.
31:59
Okay, so the ice is broken at this point, I said, and then I give them the right answer let’s move on with this and that. So they observe that now, at this point they’re thinking why he didn’t accept my answer. And then they start bugging their friend hey, why, why, why, what’s going on? Why is so? Next time, when he comes in, he might come to me and say do you want to use that implant? Instead of waiting for me to ask a question, they would suggest something. So to me it’s like all right, they did some homework, they thought about this.
32:37 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
I hope you’re enjoying today’s episode and I want to let you know our programs cover the entire career of a medical sales professional, from getting into the medical sales industry to training on how to be a top performer in the medical sales industry to masterfully navigating your career to executive level leadership. These programs are personalized and customized for your specific career and background and trained by over 50 experts, including surgeons. Our results speak for ourselves and we’re landing positions for our candidates in less than 120 days in top medical technology companies like striker, medtronic, merc, abbott you name it. Would you run an Iron man race without training in a strategy? You wouldn’t, so why are you trying to do the same with the medical sales position? You need training, you need a strategy and you need to visit, evolve your successcom. Fill out the application schedule some time with one of our account executives and let’s get you into the position that you’ve always dreamed of.
33:34 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
So when they, when they, you know, when they come in and they suggest something that I should do in surgery, and I say yes, I try to find out whether they understand what they’re suggesting, whether they actually looked it up or someone told them what to do, and at that point, depending on what they know, then they will show if they’re buying or not. Right? Because then they become more curious and more curious, and that curiosity, I think that drives them into the OR.
34:05 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
What, what, but okay, but what does overstepping look like then? Because you know, you, you, you were telling, you were saying that sometimes they go too far, you need to draw that line, and I want to hear what is that? If an associate sales rep is going too far and you need to draw a line, what does that even look like? What are they doing?
34:22 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
Well, they make a recommendation that is not appropriate, okay, and they want to stick with that, right. Or they go way, stick with that Right. Or they go way beyond their head, saying, hey, you should do this. And then it’s like you know, at this point, if you didn’t go to school or you don’t have 10, 15 years into this business, just shut up, right, because at this point you’re just not, you’re just saying nonsense.
34:55 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Does the sales rep step in when that happens or what?
34:58 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
Oh, sometimes yeah, Sometimes, yeah, you know, at some point you have to take control of the room as a surgeon and say, just, you know, just speak when you’re spoken to.
35:10 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Yeah, just, you know, just speak when you’re spoken to. Yeah, you know there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of talk around as a rep. You need to be able you have responsibility to impact the mood of the room. Talk to us a little bit about what that means to you and what you, I guess again, what does good look like when reps are doing that effectively.
35:32 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
Yeah, that’s, you have the ability. But it’s not your responsibility To me.
35:39
That’s my responsibility, Okay, but if I have someone helping me with that, that’s even better, right? So not every day you wake up and you head to the hospital. You have four or five cases and everything else in your life is running perfectly fine, right? So at some point you might be upset with something, something’s bugging you, and then that person that is always with you know how’s your mood every day and that day is different.
36:11
That person has the ability to change that right, to say, hey, listen, we’re about to get into a shoulder right now and it’s gonna be the best shoulder possible. You’re gonna nail this, we’re gonna flow here and it’s gonna be seamless, seamless. Let’s put up some music, which I do very often in the OR. Let’s get everyone by hand. We’ll bring lunch to the team in the middle of the day. We get everyone ramped up, and this is the first case 7 am and you’re coming in with that face that you don’t want to see anyone, and someone gets to you and says all that and makes your day shift from a really dark, sad day to the best day possible.
36:58
Right, and you only realize when you leave the hospital. You get in your car and you’re like, oh yeah, this was supposed to be the shittiest day ever and it was perfect, right? So that person has the ability to do that, but they need to be able to read the room. Read the person know when to do it. You don’t come, come in every day and you act like everything is perfect. You can’t. You have to be able to read the room. It’s any business, right, uh, but? But I think once we’re doing surgery most surgeons they have this informality and and we’re able to talk about other things, and there’s some periods of time in the surgery that it’s less stressful and it becomes more automated and you’re able to focus on other things, and that’s a good approach.
37:44 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
I think Sure. You know from my vantage point, you know we see a lot of what happens across medical device sales, not just ortho All different fields, the turnover, what it looks like for new people coming in, what their experience is, how long they last. From an ortho-specific surgery, surgeon-specific perspective, what do you see as far as ortho reps? Are you seeing a lot of ortho reps come in, quitting ortho reps coming in and phasing out? Are you seeing ortho reps coming in and they they usually they’re always there. What, what is? If you were just to give a, a generality on what happens when you, what do you typically see with ortho reps? What would you say?
38:30 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
once they’re in, they’re in, they don’t leave, they love it, they grow, they learn other things, they expand their businesses. They become way smarter than surgeons in terms of how to make more money and tackle multiple aspects of the industry, and that’s how they stay in, because there’s opportunities everywhere. So you think about you becoming a rep, especially an ortho. Once you start, you’re thinking only as a rep. In a few years you have to start thinking as an entrepreneur, because you will expand your business if you want to make more. So you create arms that are everywhere.
39:16
So I know guys that represent multiple companies and they have solutions for different things and and the musculoskeletal system that sometimes I don’t even know, and people that work with me for years and then suddenly I need a new product or something else and I call that person and guess what? It’s my own rep. It’s like I didn’t know you had that. It’s like him and you know I gotta. I didn’t know you had that. It’s like, yeah, man, you know I got to pay the bills, things like that, you know, and it’s just a you know a way to say that you can diversify.
39:46
It’s never boring. I guarantee you that.
39:49 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So you see. So then you would say that you see very little turnover in orthopedics as far as reps are concerned orthopedics.
40:00 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
As far as reps are concerned, yes, okay, I know. So off the top of my head, I know one person that moved to a different field wow, so it’s, it’s.
40:07 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
You would, of course, you know your, your one opinion, but you would say that’s a very secure field, the ortho space yeah, it doesn’t mean you’re going to stay in the same company for years.
40:17 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
Of course it means you will have your career forever if you want to.
40:24 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
I love it Now. You’ve been doing this since 2008,. I mean at least outside of school.
40:30 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
Well as a student and then as a resident, but then I graduated from residency in 2014.
40:38 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay, so still 14, 25, that’s 10 years outside of any kind of academic influence. So you’ve seen changes.
40:55 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
How has the orthopedic rep changed from 10 years ago to what the orthopedic rep is today, or not? Okay, yeah, so interestingly enough, I did my medical school and residency in Brazil to what the orthopedic rep is today, or not. Okay, yeah, so interesting enough, I did my medical school and residency in Brazil and orthopedics reps are allowed to scrub in the case, which is different than here in the United States. So to me it was a major paradigm shift not having the wrap scrubbed in, because they would take care of part of the instruments, the implants and whatnot. And I think it’s harder here for a wrap because he has to use his brain only and his voice to guide the surgery right, as opposed to being scrubbed in handling the instruments themselves.
41:45
And I think what changed in terms of how they think and how they do things is in the past they were more relying on just having the company, and if they had a good company with good implants, the business were guaranteed. And nowadays, since we have companies with the same quality across the the market, if they are not different in terms of perception of other things that are important for that surgeon, they will lose the business. So I think they should nowadays obviously get a good product right, but don’t rely on the product. Rely on you and your ability to sell yourself, to add to the surgeon that you’re working with.
42:37 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
It sounds like you know. If you were to quantify that, you’d say qualify that, you’d say the rep has become more important than ever before.
42:47 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
Yeah, I think so. I think the rep is very important, because it’s not about that day specifically in the OR, right, because, let’s say, something happens, you can’t be in the OR, but all the instruments are there, yeah, we can still do the surgery, it’s not a problem, right, okay, but there’s a lot of other things that happens before the surgery starts and after the surgery ends. That the rep is in charge, right, he’s checking everything before the surgery. Make sure you have all the instruments and all the implants that you need and things that we discussed before. That relationship, all right. So after the surgery, now what? How can we bring more patients to you so we can keep working together? Right? So that’s important. Yeah, you know, dr Lima, you know you and I, right, so that’s important, yeah.
43:36 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
You know, dr Lima, you know you and I, we, we, we work together a little bit because you, you are part of our program for helping people get into the right place in medical devices, specifically ortho, and I know that you’re very passionate about making sure someone that takes the opportunity to become an ortho representative is doing it in a way that’s going to be fruitful for their own career and, of course, extremely beneficial to all the surgeons they work with. Where did that come from? You know, I know, a number of orthopedic surgeons that do not have the sentiment you have to want to work with the development of representatives. Where did that come from for you? Why do you have that kind of passion?
44:15 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
you. Why do you have that kind of passion? I think, looking back at my training and when, where everything started, I every time I think about the beginning of it. I’ve always had someone by my side teaching, guiding me right, and I didn’t know what I know now, obviously, nor I know now, obviously, nor I know now what I’m gonna know ten years from now. So it’s important to have guidance and it guidance and mentorship to me is a shortcut to success. So if I can be that shortcut for those people, I’m happy because I had many people helping me and being a shortcut for those people. I’m happy because I had many people helping me and being a shortcut for me, and so I appreciate that.
45:04
Like I could name every single person that I know just held my hand and said I’m gonna get you to the next step by your own efforts, but go this way, don’t go that way, right. So I think that was key and I see people that started at the same time as me and maybe they didn’t have that guidance, and I see them way behind or they went through another path to then realize that was the wrong path, then coming back, coming back. So it’s about giving back first. Second of all I learned from that. I learned a lot right, as a surgeon and as a person, because I hear myself afterwards I’m like all right, why did I say that? I shouldn’t have said that this is a person that’s listening to me, so I should be, you know, more kind or those things. Right, it’s good for them. It’s good for me too, and I guess I like it, I enjoy it.
46:09 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
I don’t know if I’m good at it, but I keep coming back. We’ll take it, we’ll take it. I got a few more questions for you as we bring this to a close, and I love asking surgeons this. Once upon a time, maybe 20, 30 years ago, they said that, uh, the the value of a medical sales rep is going to eventually go away and and companies are going to figure it out and they’re going to be replaced by, I don’t know, computers or ai, or they just won’t be in need for them. And, as we’ve just discussed that, not only is that not happening, but now the reps have become that much more important because all these products are working as good as the other. So what’s the differentiator? It’s the rep. Let’s fast forward 10 years from now. Where do you see the dynamic? Do you see it being what it is today? Do you see it going in a certain direction? It’s going to be more of A, b and C.
47:04 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
What do you see when you think about the future of the dynamic between surgeons and medical sales reps in ortho? I think the importance and, like you said, it can be replaced by robotics, right, it can be someone there or maybe just a screen saying what you need and whatnot and a an employee of the hospital doing that. Right. But that outside aspect, that close, close relationship with the company and ways, because they rely completely and they depend completely on my business to thrive, for them to thrive, because if I’m not busy, they’re not busy and nobody’s making money, right, okay, so more and more they’re thinking outside the OR. How do I become more frequent in the OR it? The answer is not inside the OR. That is a baseline and that recipe is out there already.
47:59
I know a few guys that are already doing that and I realized it and I saw that. I said that guy is smart because he figured it out right. So I see them doing that and I’m like all right, let’s see if he’s doing so. He’s doing that in the OR, he’s doing that outside the OR. Now companies need to see that value. I think the main thing is we need to push for major companies to see the value in the rep that is there on the trenches with a surgeon and give more power to that person. That is thinking outside the box is thinking outside the box because the company is not going to make their bottom line. If the rep’s not able to think outside the box and bring more business to the surgeon, that bring more business to the rep and affects the bottom end of the company, not the business.
49:05 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So the future belongs to the entrepreneurial outside thinking reps.
49:11 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
Exactly, that is well said.
49:14 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
We’ll take Dr Lehman. This was fantastic spending time with you today Working. People find I know you’re a busy orthopedic surgeon, but people are going to hear this and say, dr Lee, this was fantastic spending time with you today. Where can people find you? I know you’re a busy orthopedic surgeon, but people are going to hear this and say I got to ask them a question. Where can people find you? Anytime that you have to talk, dr?
49:26 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
Lee Lee Lee. Yeah, I’ll leave my email. It’s easy to get to me by email. Obviously, I’m not on my email 24-7, but I don’t like having my inbox full, so I’m constantly replying to all my emails, right?
49:42 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
You heard it here, folks. His email will be in the show notes.
49:46 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
Yeah.
49:47 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay, we got one more thing to do, doctor, before I let you go, and it’s called the lightning round. I’m going to ask you four questions. You have less than 10 seconds to answer. Are?
49:54 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
you ready?
49:55 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
I am ready. You’re ready. Seconds to answer. Are you ready? I am ready, you’re ready.
50:01 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
All right, first question what is the uh? What is the best book you’ve read in the last six months? Uh, I’m not ready.
50:08 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
He’s like what are you talking about?
50:09 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
Yeah, what are you talking about? I don’t read any books besides orthopedics. Probably a technique guide, a technique guide or something.
50:16 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Technique guide All right, we’ll take it. Okay. What is the best TV show or movie you’ve seen in the last six months?
50:25 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
All right, so I’m addicted to Seinfeld now.
50:29 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Wow, I would never guess Seinfeld. Okay, are you new to it?
50:33 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
or you’ve always been. I’m relatively new, yeah, considering that Seinfeld was out like 20 plus years ago I was a kid, you know. So I first started watching recently, like a year ago, and now I’m like on my third rerun.
50:48 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Hey, come on. More power to you. Okay, what is the best meal you’ve had in the last six months?
50:56 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
Okay, so the best meal I had in the past six months was a phenomenal branzino on a salty crust which was to die for.
51:07 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
I am, so that is. Yeah okay, okay and last but not least, what is the best experience you’ve had in the last six months? What?
51:18 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
is the best experience you’ve had in the last six months, I think, was recently. We had a major change in our practice and it was a major change and a lot of unknowns came with that change. Change and the best experience was having the group coming together as opposed to drifting apart and finding solutions together, and everyone was a key part of that change and it almost felt like we didn’t have any issues. But we know we did, but the fact that the group was so cohesive and focused on the positives and trying to make the best out of it. To me it was a great experience because it showed me that I’m on the right track with the right people and it’s important to have the right people. Sometimes you have great things with you, but if you don’t have the right people, sometimes it’s not as good or you’re not going to be the best you can be.
52:21 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Fantastic. Thanks for the time, dr Lima, thanks for all the valuable wisdom you have shared with us today, and we look forward to seeing what the future brings and maybe being on this episode again.
52:31 – Dr. Diego Lima (Guest)
Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
52:34 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
And that was Dr Diego Lima. What I love about that episode is one thing he said that I think really resonated the sales rep. And we really both identified OR they’ll still be the need to have the sales rep. That’s thinking outside the box, that’s thinking about the entrepreneur in that orthopedic surgeon and that’s thinking about what the career track of an orthopedic surgeon needs to look like and contributing there so that they can have a better practice and, of course, do more business with that orthopedic sales rep. It goes a long, know I?
53:17
We find it a privilege to be able to have someone like dr Lima working within our programs to help professionals get into this space and, of course, help professionals excel within this space. So listen, you know what I’m gonna say. If you’ve been here any amount of time listening to the medical sales podcast, I’m gonna tell you to go to EvarvaSuccesscom and fill out an application and get yourself talking to one of our account executives and see how you can enhance your career or how you can get into a space you always want to be in and work with people just like Dr Lima. It’s a privilege to be able to have this opportunity to work with people like you and help you get to where you want to be. Take us up on the offer, get to Evolvesuccesscom, fill out an application and let’s get you going.
54:05
As always, we do our best to bring you innovative guests that are doing things differently in the medical space, so I really hope you tune in next week for another episode of the Medical Sales Podcast. I hope you enjoyed today’s episode and remember I have a customized and personalized program that gets you into the medical technology industry as a sales professional or any type of role for that matter. Become a top performer in your position and masterfully navigate your career to executive level leadership. Check out these programs and learn more at evolveinsuccesscom by visiting our site, filling out an application, schedule some time with one of our account executives and allowing us to get you where you need to be. Stay tuned for more awesome content with amazing interviews on the Medical Sales Podcast.
Medical Territory Manager!
I was a Regional Sales Representative for Long-Term Care pharmacy services. I had dreamed of getting into the med sales industry when I went into my career as a nurse, but the pharmacy sales job came to me, and I had just settled. Fortunately, I had a job shakeup that allowed me to determine that now was the time to pursue my original vision.
I absolutely would not have this position without Samuel and the Evolve Your Success community. A lot of people my age would just stop trying, but EYS believed in me.
EYS allowed me to break into the industry in 90-Days after I had been trying on my own for over two years! I had lots of recruiter screenings, and a few interviews with hiring managers, but I was never offered a position.
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Of course, I had to think hard before making a financial investment that’s reasonably substantial. But when I read the testimonials of real med sales reps on the site and learned that I wasn’t the only one taking a chance on my success, that EYS was sharing that risk also, I knew I had to do it. Though you might be able to cobble together some of the steps of getting a role in med sales from online research on your own, you just can’t know what you don’t know!
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I would recommend this course to ANYONE looking to break into medical sales
Thank you so much, EYS! This journey has been life changing and has resulted in the successful culmination of my 18-Year ambition! 
Sports Medicine in Phoenix! I extend so much gratitude to the Evolve Your Success group as I land this role and get ready to pursue my dream job. I am a Physical Therapist who became a little stuck in the profession due to issues with reimbursement and the difficulty for continued growth upwards. I turned to EYS to assist me in learning about the medical sales industry and gain knowledgable mentors who were able to help coach me in this process. I am a strong believer in surrounding yourself with the best and good things will happen. I did work hard, but with the support of my mentors and other colleagues going through a career change, I felt a sense of community and it confirmed my drive to get into this industry. I have already learned so much through the interview process, and feel very blessed to have had the resources this group provided. I have made lifelong friends and I cannot wait to continue to follow others’ journeys to pursue this incredible field. I urge you to give Evolve Your Success a try to gain mentorship, guidance, and support through any career transition.
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. I owe this opportunity to Samuel, the program, and the incredible mentors at EYS.
