POSTED ON August 12, 2026

The Proven Formula for Health Tech Sales Success

In this episode of the Medical Sales Podcast, Samuel Adeyinka sits down with Jon Alwinson, an Endoscopy Regional Manager, to uncover what hiring managers really look for when interviewing candidates for medical device sales roles. Jon shares the most common mistakes candidates make during interviews, from giving long-winded answers and failing to prepare, to missing opportunities to demonstrate coachability, curiosity, and work ethic. He also explains how experienced reps can successfully transition into procedural sales, what qualities separate top performers from average ones, and why organization, territory planning, and disciplined execution are often the biggest drivers of long-term success. This episode is a must listen for anyone trying to break into medical device sales or current reps who want to sharpen their interview skills, improve their sales performance, and position themselves for career growth.

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Transcription:

(0:00) They don’t care about you, right? They care about themselves, right? And the moment you can, and this is especially true for new reps, (0:08) and that is, it’s really about the other person. As much as you can figure out how to make it about the other person and what they want to do and what they’re trying to accomplish, (0:17) that’s really all they care about. So if you spend a lot of time talking about the company and the background and where it came from, the chances are pretty good that it doesn’t matter.
(0:27) What really matters is, what are you going to do for me, right? (0:30) Hello and welcome to the Medical Sales Podcast. I’m your host, Samuel, founder of a revolutionary medical sales training and mentorship program called the Medical Sales Career Builder. (0:39) And I’m also host of the Medical Sales Podcast.
In this podcast, I interview top medical sales reps and leading medical sales executives across the entire world. (0:49) It doesn’t matter what medical sales industry, from medical device to pharmaceutical to genetic testing and diagnostic lab, you name it, (0:56) you will learn how to either break into the industry, be a top 10% performer within your role, or climb the corporate ladder. (1:05) Welcome to the Medical Sales Podcast.
And remember, I am a medical sales expert sharing my own opinion about this amazing industry and how it can change your life. (1:17) Do you need to be or have the background of a medical sales rep to get into healthcare tech sales? Like, could you be someone that’s a college grad or a clinician even? (1:31) You know what? I want to be a medical sales rep for healthcare tech. (1:36) Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, of course. And again, if you’re coming to a college and you don’t have healthcare experience, it’s a little bit more about there’s a learning curve, a greater learning curve than there would be if you come from a clinical background, (1:49) or you’ve been a nurse, or you’ve been on the clinical side of things. Because in those areas, you’re being immersed in all the stuff that doctors and nurses and all the clinical staff and the operations people have to deal with.
(2:05) But yeah, you absolutely can get in and sell into that world. Yeah. (2:10) That’s awesome.
So then let’s talk about it. So healthcare tech sales, I think a lot of people believe that healthcare tech sales can be remote sales. (2:19) I mean, they’re the kind of jobs that you just wake up and you’re doing cold calling as in phone calling, and there’s not a lot of field work.
Tell us the truth. Is that the case? And if it’s not, tell us what it really is. (2:30) You can.
There’s a fair amount of the ability to work from home or work remotely and so forth. Because a lot of things, especially now, you know, in the world that we’re in today, a lot of this conversation takes place via Zoom calls and the like and phone calls and email and that sort of stuff. Text messages.
(2:48) But it’s still critically important if you’re dealing with complex sales and they tend to be complex in the healthcare world because there are a lot of people involved. (2:59) There are a lot of constituents and stakeholders that have a say in it. And hospital sales, healthcare sales, sales into health plans, sales into pharma, there tends to be a fair amount of collaboration that’s required.
(3:12) So there are a lot of people involved. A lot of people get to weigh in on the sales. So in those instances, it really helps to get in there once in a while and meet people face to face, roam the halls of the hospital, get to know people.
(3:27) You can establish those levels of trust. You can establish the relationships. You can understand what’s going on much more than you can by just being on the phone.
(3:36) So would you – okay, then would you say that most health tech sales jobs are hybrid of fieldwork and remote or not? (3:49) Well, your example of someone straight out of college or straight out into the workforce, if they come in in the beginning, they might come in as an SDR, someone that’s doing outbound sales calls, just outbound call calling. (4:06) And in that case, you’re remote. You’re at the desk making phone calls, talking to people, sending emails, follow-up, et cetera, et cetera.
(4:18) That’s a springboard, too, into being more of an outside salesperson and being more of an accountant executive or what have you. (4:26) And in that case, the best people, I often say, you don’t sell the email. You want to sell the in-person as much as you can or Zoom calls.
(4:35) So there’s more interaction. There’s more nuance. You get to talk to people in more detail and learn more about them and develop more trust and understand their business and their problems and what they’re trying to accomplish, right? All that sort of stuff.
(4:50) So ultimately, yeah, it’s much more of a – it’s still an in-person job. (4:54) Sure. Now, if you’re a clinician, say you’re a physical therapist and you’re saying, you know, I’m really done with physical therapy.
(5:01) I want to – I heard about this health tech space. I really want to check that out. (5:05) Are you needing to go through the SDR route from what you’ve seen to become an account executive and beyond? (5:12) Or can you go straight to account executive because you have that healthcare background? (5:15) You can – you know, you can absolutely go.
In fact, you probably should go that route, right? (5:20) If you’re a physical therapist and you know how your patients behave, you know how things work inside that world, if you go to a company that’s in the physical therapy space that’s got a solution for physical therapists, right? (5:37) Or it’s got some sort of a device for that space. You could go to that company and say, hey, you know, I know the space. I could hit the ground running.
(5:49) And yeah, you might need to learn something about sales. That’s one of the things I tend to do is one of the things I do is someone says, hey, you know, I’m hiring this new person. (5:58) I don’t have – you know, a sales manager might – or a VP of sales might say, I’m hiring this new person.
I don’t have time to get them up to speed, but I’ve hired them. (6:09) Brendan, spend 90 days with them and teach them fundamentals, process, how to structure a phone call, you know, how to close a call, how to qualify, how to discuss the sales journey. (6:20) And then I help them – I help them ramp up to – get up to speed.
(6:23) Got it. Got it. Are most of the clients you work with, are they large teams with, you know, 50 reps or smaller companies with maybe 15 reps? (6:34) Yeah, it’s really – it’s from zero revenue up until about 20 million.
So that could be 20 or so million. (6:41) After that, they tend to have too many people, you know, or they’ve got enough infrastructure in place. (6:47) But, you know, a company that’s doing 10 million a year might have five or six or 10 reps.
(6:52) And I will work with one or two or all of them, you know, and kind of work with them on an ad hoc basis as they need it, or I’ll do some training for them or I’ll just work on strategy with them. (7:04) Especially if they’re going to a new market or they’re having – they’re rolling out a new product, that sort of thing. (7:11) And do you mostly work with, you know, all of the above when it comes to remote versus out field workers, or is it more players in the field that you spend more time with versus remote? (7:22) Yeah, I don’t work a lot with the SDRs today because that’s a very simple – but I can.
(7:28) And actually, the truth of the matter is I’ve done some of that where I’ve done some sales coaching for SDRs in the past for, you know, so you can do that. (7:35) And I can – I certainly do that when it comes to, like, doing sales call, you know, sales call tune-ups. (7:40) You know, I’ll get SDR calls where they’ll – I got on the call, we did a 30-minute demo, blah, blah, blah.
(7:45) And I’ll walk through. You’re not doing this. You’re not doing that.
Right. (7:49) But, generally speaking, it’s with account execs. It’s more with people that are either they’re ramping up to be a field sales rep or they’re struggling or they’re aren’t there already.
(8:01) So let’s talk about it. You know, think of your field reps that you’re coaching. I mean, how many years have you been coaching these reps? (8:08) Oh, me? I’ve been doing this for – I’ve been coaching for over 10 years.
I ran an accelerator. I do a bunch of classes, that sort of thing. (8:17) So I’ve been doing that for, like, a long time.
Yeah. (8:19) So then, I want to hear from you. What are the – and we’re going to start with the reps that think they know what they’re doing first.
Right? (8:26) I’m talking – I want to hear about your five-year-plus reps. What are the top three things that, I guess, for lack of a better way of saying it, stop doing that you find yourself coaching when it comes to tenured reps and development? (8:41) The things that they should be doing that they’re not doing? (8:43) Yeah. Yeah.
The top three things that you consistently see with tenured reps where you’re like, okay, this is why you need me. One, two, three. (8:52) Yeah.
Oh, that’s good. Well, first of all, they sell way too early. Right? (8:58) The first thing I can say is that they’re selling out of the gate.
And, you know, as soon as they get on the call, they’re talking about their product. (9:06) And it’s just – or their solution and whatever. And it’s the wrong time.
Right? (9:12) So in the beginning, you want to learn about them. You want to get your customer talking. So that’s one thing they’re doing wrong.
(9:17) Second thing is they’re interrupting. Right? Right? One of the things you have to – one of the things – and this is kind of fundamental basic stuff. (9:25) You want to let your customer talk as much as you can.
You want to get them to talk because they share information about what their challenges are, what they’re trying to accomplish. (9:35) And that helps inform whatever you’re going to say when the time comes. And they’re going to tell you stuff.
(9:42) And they’re also – if they feel like they have the time and the space to talk, they’re going to tell you more stuff. (9:48) They’re going to feel more at ease. They’re going to feel less like they’re being sold to.
(9:51) They feel like you’re talking to someone. They’re talking to someone who’s interested and who just wants to see if there’s a solution to be had. (9:59) The third thing – there are more.
But the third thing that comes immediately in mind is they don’t end the call. (10:05) They don’t allow time at the end of the call to figure out whether or not there’s a real opportunity. (10:09) And I think that if you’ve got a 30-minute call, by the time you get to 25 minutes, you should be figuring out whether or not there’s – you want to be talking about things like, (10:19) so here’s what I’ve talked about.
Here’s what we’ve talked about. Blah, blah, blah. What do you think? Do you like it? (10:27) And open-end questions.
Get them to like get a real understanding. What did – was there anything you didn’t – you didn’t hear that you needed to hear? (10:34) Was there anything – what didn’t you like? And let them get in there. Because one of the things you want to do is figure out if there’s interest, right? (10:43) You don’t want to have a customer that you’re set up the next appointment and they don’t really want to buy, right? (10:50) And they’re not – they’ve just been obligated to – I’ll set up another appointment because they said there’s the next step in the process.
(10:56) But there’s really no interest. You want to figure that out. (10:59) So I think if there’s a possibility to figure out toward the end of the call with enough space so that that person – that other person has a chance to explain where they are, (11:09) it allows you to surface any objections or issues or concerns they may have.
And it sort of telegraphs that you’re interested in figuring out whether there’s a fit and not just simply trying to make a sale. (11:23) And conversely, what’s counterintuitive, perhaps, is if you don’t act like you’re trying to sell, it’s actually much easier to get the sale and to figure out whether or not – because the customer is now put at ease and they feel like, oh, this person is just trying to figure out whether or not they can help me out. (11:39) Right.
Right. I like that. I like that.
Okay. Let’s switch gears now. Let’s talk about the new reps.
Same question. (11:46) What are the three things you consistently see when it comes to new reps that they’re always kind of, for lack of a better way of saying it, trapping themselves into? (11:57) I think one of them – the one that immediately comes to mind is I don’t think – and one of the things I work on a lot with sales reps and new reps in particular is I think having the right mindset. (12:09) And so having the right level of confidence.
And one of the things I think sales people need to understand is if they can – first of all, if they can do like I said and not get out of the mindset of you’ve got to sell, you shouldn’t necessarily be selling. (12:23) What you should be thinking about is how do I make this a fit? See if this is a fit for them. See if we can make this – this is something that we can do together that works.
(12:35) And if it isn’t, then I want to figure that out. You want to figure that out, and then we get back to the rest of – going on with the rest of our day. (12:43) So one of the things I – what I spend a lot of time talking to them about is getting them to understand that they’re a professional.
(12:50) That they’re actually a consultant to the customer, and they’re not in the business of trying to sell them something. (12:58) They’re trying to – in the business of trying to help them figure out how to solve a problem. (13:04) And it may be that you can’t solve the problem for your customer, in which case you owe that to themselves and you to tell them, hey, this isn’t for you.
(13:15) And if it isn’t for them, then you’ve done them a real service. (13:19) But if it is, and you as a new sales rep don’t understand that, what you’ll find happens – it’s really kind of fun to see – is the customer will go, no, no, no, you don’t understand. (13:32) I think there is a fit here.
You don’t understand. Let me explain. (13:38) And then what they’ll do is they’ll explain that, oh, this thing that you say is an obstacle or a killer or this isn’t – we can’t get past that? (13:46) No, here’s how we’ll do that.
And then you find that they end up helping you to figure out how to make that sale – make the solution successful. (13:57) Does that make sense? (13:58) That makes perfect sense. I love that.
Give me two more. (14:04) Well, I mentioned with all rep – with experienced reps, they have a tendency to want to step on other people’s words. (14:12) And I can’t stress this enough.
There’s this really interesting characteristic or behavior that happens that if you pause before you talk, after the customer finishes a sentence and you pause before you answer, it allows them the space to continue talking. (14:33) And it’s when they continue talking that you really learn interesting things. (14:38) Oh, because they feel like, oh, I’ve got runway here to talk about this thing.
Here’s how it works. (14:45) And one of the more powerful questions that you can ever ask is, oh, that’s interesting. Can you tell me more or explain that? (14:54) And then what you’re allowing the customer to do is educate you.
And everyone feels good about themselves when they’re teaching someone else and showing off what they know. (15:08) Look at me right now. So it gives them a sense of, oh, this is – I’m in a good space.
(15:18) And when people feel like they’re in a good space where they can be heard, they’re much more inclined to tell you what’s real. (15:26) And then that’s just a huge thing, right? So that would be another one. That’s not even a journalist trick.
Journalists do that when they interview. (15:36) I don’t know. How’s that? Do you want another? (15:39) You want to hang with two? I mean, yeah.
We got to make it even. We got to make it even. Give me one more for the new reps.
(15:45) New reps. And so if you can, as a new rep, constantly figure out – constantly remind yourself that it’s not about you. (15:57) It’s about that person and what they’re trying to accomplish and what’s their motivation for being on the call.
(16:04) And if you can keep that front of mind, that can be a huge advantage. (16:07) I do this thing where I do – when I do a presentation, when I do a talk, there’s a customary about me slide in the front of there when people do presentations. (16:17) Oh, here’s a little bit about me.
And what I do is I always have it in this there and I say, you don’t care. (16:22) And then I zip right through and I don’t have it. It’s got a picture of my dog, right? (16:26) So it’s got like, you don’t care.
It doesn’t matter. So let’s move on. And that’s a lesson, right? (16:32) It’s like, I recognize you don’t care.
It’s not that important. Let’s get to what you’re here for. (16:37) I like it.
(16:39) Now, does that change depending on your audience? Because I’d like to believe that in some audiences, they need to hear – they need to see some accolades or something that you’ve done that makes them say, okay, I know why I’m even entertaining this person. (16:53) Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yes. But the way to do that is not then.
You do it in the course of the conversation. (17:01) And the way you do it is you would say things like, oh, yeah, when they’ve expressed a problem or an obstacle that they’re trying to overcome and particularly related to whatever solution you’re, oh, yeah. (17:14) Yeah, we’ve done that.
I worked with so-and-so on that sort of a thing. (17:18) Here’s what they were running up against. So it’s very similar.
You’re having – the problem you talked is a common – I see it a lot. (17:26) And here’s how I worked it out with customer A, B, C, whatever. (17:30) And so what you’re doing is you’re weaving it in in a way that’s more of a story and it’s a more of a modest, understated way of explaining, oh, oh, yeah, I know how to do this.
(17:42) Gotcha. Gotcha. (17:44) And later on, you could say something like, oh, I was talking to this customer.
I’ve got a great customer. At some point, if things work out, if this makes sense, I’d love to introduce you to this. (17:54) And one of the things – that’s an interesting little point is one of the things you have a chance to do as a salesperson is you get to meet a lot of people.
(18:03) And one of the cool little things you get to do – and I don’t enough salespeople do this – is you should be introducing your customers to other customers. (18:11) Oh, you’d like this person. And not because they’re a customer and you’re a customer necessarily in a reference, but when you see someone like, oh, you’re a Steelers fan? (18:20) Oh, you’re a Steelers fan? Oh, I know it’s another Steelers fan.
Oh, you guys like each other. That sort of thing. Those sorts of things take you out of this role of, oh, this guy is trying to sell me something.
(18:34) Right? It’s got to be organic. It’s got to be genuine. Right? (18:38) But if you can sort of get into those sorts of situations, people will gravitate to a place where they’re much more comfortable and much more inclined to want to work with you rather than somebody else.
(18:54) I hope you’re enjoying today’s episode. And I want to let you know our programs cover the entire career of a medical sales professional. (19:00) From getting into the medical sales industry to training on how to be a top performer in the medical sales industry to masterfully navigating your career to executive level leadership.
(19:12) These programs are personalized and customized for your specific career and background and trained by over 50 experts, including surgeons. (19:20) Our results speak for ourselves and we’re landing positions for our candidates in less than 120 days in top medical technology companies like Striker, Metronic, Merck, Abbott, you name it. (19:32) Would you run an Ironman race without training in a strategy? You wouldn’t.
So why are you trying to do the same with the medical sales position? (19:38) You need training, you need a strategy, and you need to visit evolveyourassess.com, fill out the application, schedule some time with one of our account executives, and let’s get you into the position that you’ve always dreamed of. (19:50) I love this. Let’s say you’re listening to this podcast right now and you’re a sales rep and you’re like, man, this guy is just dropping pearls.
(19:58) I am going to start applying this stuff. I love what I’m hearing, but I really don’t know how to go about doing it. (20:03) What would you advise someone that wants to start being better at these things to do on a daily basis, follow a certain schedule, read a certain book, do a certain exercise? (20:14) How would you, if someone listened to this and said, I just want to start practicing this stuff every day to get better at this? (20:20) What would you advise them to do? (20:21) Well, here’s a plug.
But with a purpose. So I wrote a book a while ago called Sales Craft. (20:31) And it’s just a whole bunch of little short ideas about how to sell, like little fundamental things.
(20:38) And I put together as a book. And if your listeners email me, put the email or whatever in the show notes or whatever, I’ll send them a PDF copy. (20:49) And if, you know, the book, it’s a couple hundred pages and it’s just, it’s short.
You can read to two pages, boom. (20:56) And you can also get my newsletter and I send out a sales tip every week and they’re usually very short and so forth. (21:04) But the point of all this is, I don’t know who told me this example, but it was, if you want to learn how to golf, you’re a golfer and you’ve got your swings out of whack and you’re not playing a great game.
(21:17) The golf coach isn’t going to go to you and say, hey, you need to do this and this and this and this. (21:24) What they do is they’ll say, we’re going to focus on your grip. Let’s get your grip right.
(21:29) And then you go out and play golf and just focus on your grip and you go to the driving range and you focus it and then you get that figured out. (21:36) And then they go, all right, now let’s work on your rotating your hips or whatever. I’m not much a golfer, but that’s the story.
(21:42) And so what you do is, it’s the little incremental things. It’s like picking up one new little character, one little behavior. (21:50) It’s one new little thing every now and then applying it and making that a habit and then moving on to the next thing.
(21:58) Okay, so your advice would be choose something specific you want to work on. (22:04) Yeah, one thing. I’m going to prep.
I’m going to spend 10 minutes the day before the call. (22:13) And I’m going to Google. I’m going to do a LinkedIn check.
I’m going to read the news page on that company’s website. (22:21) I’m going to do a search on this customer’s name or whatever. (22:26) And I’m going to learn a little bit about what they do.
(22:27) And I’m going to come up with three or four important questions that I would want to know. (22:33) That would be one step. (22:35) Another one might be, I’m going to create a sales toolkit.
(22:45) I’m going to have like 20 things in my sales toolkit that like brochures that I need, short paragraphs that I might use over and over again. (22:54) And case studies, references, those sorts of things. I’m going to have them all in place so that when someone says something, (22:59) like, oh, I need, I’d like more information on this.
It’s just at your fingertips. (23:06) And you save yourself 10 minutes of searching and scrambling. (23:11) Sure.
No, great advice. So one thing that’s experienced often in the medical sales world is access. (23:20) And I would say it probably doesn’t change at all for healthcare sales either.
(23:24) And it’s just a challenge all reps have. (23:27) No, we’re now talking to you, the experts, give us maybe three points of just how can a rep get access to those hard to see accounts, (23:37) those hard to see physicians, those hard to see hospital systems, what can they do that you’ve seen work better than just being accepted? (23:46) Yeah, I did an engagement, a consulting engagement where I was selling to and working with sales reps around orthopedics and docs and selling to orthopods. (23:59) And one of the things that was hugely important with them, and this translates to just about anybody, and that is get to the point.
(24:08) So when if you get to the point, so when you when you contact them, if you’re going to reach out and email them or text them, if you can do that, (24:19) you know, pleasantries, like say, hey, this, this is, you know, you’re there for this. (24:26) I just want to let you know this, or we do this thing, you know, that is how it benefits you and net it out because these people have no time. (24:37) And, and no attention span, and they’ve got so many demands on their time.
So you want to be really economical with how you communicate with them. (24:46) And the whole thing about have a nice day or anything it seems kind of less than that seems like a platitude or what have you is just a waste of time. (24:56) So, so that’s the first thing.
The second is to be really to be really be professional. And I know that sounds obvious, but you’re one of the things I try and instill in the people I coach is you’re a pro, you’re an expert at what you do. (25:14) You’re entitled to ask certain hard questions, how you ask them is important, but you’re entitled to know stuff because otherwise, you can’t solve the problem for them, you don’t want to waste their time and so forth.
(25:24) So, though, those are those are two or three things I would say, right away is try to figure out a way to realize that you’re a professional, right, so behave like, like a professional and that in, you know, a pro is going to go, Hey, I’m here for this, you know, I’m trying to tell you this. (25:41) I’m be really crisp with their time really respectful their time. And then, and then you have to add value, it has to be meaningful to them, right, whatever you’re getting to them.
(25:52) But, hey, the only reason I’m talking to you, I know you’re tired, you know, the only reason I’m talking to you is we can save you this amount of time, or we can reduce the, the, the, the, the, the post op period that your patients go through. (26:05) And here’s how, right, or whatever the value proposition is but if you got to crisp it down to make it is just short and meaningful and impactful as possible. (26:15) Sure, sure.
Yeah, great. So then, you know, in that same vein. (26:20) When it comes to medical sales reps a lot of positions, you’re on your own, right, you might be part of a team.
But for the most part, you’re the one that’s going from case to case for office to office or hospital hospital clinic to clinic to do, you know, cover cases or sell your product (26:34) or in the case of healthcare tech sales, talk to the other traders that make the decisions, and you’re, you’re, you’re by yourself. (26:41) Put yourself, remember some of that you’ve coached that, for whatever reason they were just struggling, and they were having a tough quarter, and they’re still by themselves. (26:51) You know, what do you advise for the mind like how do you, how does a rep that’s out there right now on a drive to the next can listen to this thinking man that’s that’s me right this moment.
(27:02) Where do they get that mindset shift, where do they go to get their minds right so they can get back into, you know, fourth gear and get after it, as opposed to just being that lone wolf that’s that feels like they’re struggling. (27:17) The first thing is, as good as anybody is right and anything, you know, someone looking over your shoulder and and examining what you do, you’re always going to learn something from somebody else. (27:30) And like I, I do a lot of this, and at the same time, I have two different groups of people that I work with, and they coach me on stuff and and and talk to me and and point out my blind spots.
(27:42) And so one of the first things I would do is I would, I would have somebody look at what I do, and say, Hey, what am I, what do I need to be doing different so if you’re a field rep out there. (27:56) And, and, and I would find somebody that you can, who you can confide in and talk to and say hey you know I recorded this call or I did this call or I did, or I went on this, you know, and, and in. (28:11) Let me, what am I doing wrong or what should I be doing different or what can be better I mean, I mean, Tom Brady has his own has a coach right.
I mean everyone has right. (28:20) So, so what I would do is I would have somebody on the outside that would be the first thing if you’re a rep in the field, because it can be long work times and you can be certain times, how in the world do you stay motivated to do your job every day and give it your best. (28:33) This is completely like often a tangent, but I have a certain, you know, there’s certain movies that that motivate me.
(28:40) Oh, so a really good one is whiplash the movie about the drummer man. That movie is inspiration. Yeah.
Yeah. Or when when I was I wrestled. Right.
And so when when is this great little movie with. (28:53) Yeah, I can’t remember who’s in it, Bobby Cannavale is in it but, but he, but it’s, it’s anyone that’s that movies that that display a certain level of excellence and and a focus on the grind. (29:08) And I think our, our highly motivational my father was was orthopedic surgeon, and just a phenomenal role model.
And the one of the things he used to say to me was, you have to enjoy the grind, you have to love the grind. (29:22) And, and the it’s the grind that that that produces all good, the good that comes out of it. It’s all the, you know, if you’re an athlete, it’s, you know, it’s focusing on footwork and technique and doing shots and if you’re playing basketball or whatever, whatever.
(29:39) And so I think what you do is I go back and folk, I look at movies or shows or they’re highly motivational. I like the there’s an episode in Hulu’s The Bear, right, season two, the one called Forks and Richie. (29:55) This is again, one of the tangents.
Richie is sent to this really nice restaurant.