Want to Win in Medical Sales? Master These Skills First
John Crowder joins us to unpack what most medical sales reps are getting wrong in today’s healthcare landscape. Traditional sales tactics are no longer enough, John explains why, and what modern reps must do to stay competitive.
We dive into the real impact of disruptive technologies, and how they demand a completely new skill set. John shares how emotional intelligence has become a key differentiator in sales, and why understanding both logic and emotion is essential for building trust and closing deals.
Training isn’t what it used to be. John outlines how microlearning, repetition, and real-time coaching are transforming how top teams develop lasting skills. He also shares why outdated training models are failing today’s reps.
Compliance is another major hurdle. John reveals how to have ethical, solution-focused conversations that still drive impact, especially with time-strapped providers. He also highlights the power of behavioral assessments in hiring and coaching.
Finally, we explore the shift from pitching products to delivering real, personalized value. John explains how reps can build deeper relationships by leading with empathy, relevance, and purpose, not just features and benefits.
Whether you’re just breaking in or looking to lead at a higher level, this episode gives you the mindset, tools, and strategies to stay relevant and win in medical sales today.
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Episode Transcript:
00:07 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Hello and welcome to the Medical Sales Podcast. I’m your host, samuel, founder of a revolutionary medical sales training and mentorship program called the Medical Sales Career Builder, and I’m also host of the Medical Sales Podcast. In this podcast, I interview top medical sales reps and leading medical sales executives across the entire world. It doesn’t matter what medical sales industry from medical device to pharmaceutical, to genetic testing and diagnostic lab you name it you will learn how to either break into the industry, be a top 10% performer within your role or climb the corporate ladder. Welcome to the Medical Sales Podcast and remember, I am a medical sales expert, sharing my own opinion about this amazing industry and how it can change your life. Hello and welcome to the Medical Sales Podcast. I’m your host, samuel, and today we have with us another special guest, and he goes by the name of John Crowder. Now, john is not an unfamiliar face here at the Medical Sales Podcast. He is a thought leader in how to be the ultimate healthcare sales professional and he’s behind integrity selling.
01:11
And today we’re going to dive into some of the critical things that affect sales reps More, namely, the four critical issues in healthcare sales how to develop trust with your customers and how do you stay emotionally engaged as a sales rep when you’re constantly in the field, each and every day. These are the kind of things that you absolutely have to listen to If you want to break into medical sales. You got to know this stuff. If you’re in medical sales, you better know this stuff. So, as always, we do our best to bring you guests that are doing things different in the medical sales space, and I really do hope you enjoy the scenario. Okay, let’s, let’s, let’s, let’s start from the top, cause I love this. Give us the four, the four issues you’ve seen in healthcare that the white paper was on, and then let’s, let’s go deep into each one. Okay, please, give us the four again.
01:59 – John Crowder (None)
So it was. Access is one of them. The other one is people aren’t able to sell disruptive technologies because the customer’s at risk when they change their practice, when they start using a new product. The customer takes all the risks. So if all I can do is provide them product information, then I can’t help them overcome the barriers they have of changing the way they practice for 10, 15, 20 years. Service is not selling.
02:20
And then there’s another piece, that kind of mixes in all of this, and that is human beings. And this is where we can talk about the neuroscience of selling. All of that training that we do, all that technical information, all that product information, all that happens right up in your cerebral cortex, the logic center of your brain, and we like to think that people make decisions there. But in reality it’s not how people make decisions. 95% of decision-making happens in the cerebral cortex. And so as we overload these reps with technical information and they think that’s going to sell, and they get across from a client and the client nods their head and they say, yes, I love this, but they never take action.
02:56
Why is that? That’s because their limbic system, their emotional centers of their brain, are saying I’m cautious here. Something’s not right. There’s too much risk. There could be a bad outcome. It’s going to take a lot of work. There are all these emotional things that can paralyze you. It’s the good old fight or flight. Our primitive brains are the same, regardless of how smart or how well-trained we are. So what’s happened?
03:21 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Yeah, I’m sending some sound bites. So what’s happened? Yeah, I’m seeing some sound bites. We’re going to go nuts on this, John. But I want to capture the overall premise first. So you said four items. Let’s name them one more time. The first one was access.
03:34 – John Crowder (None)
What was number two. Access Number two is you need a different skill set to sell a disruptive technology.
03:41 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay, so different skill set.
03:44 – John Crowder (None)
Right To sell what we call disruptive technology. Okay, okay what’s number three, or innovation? Number three is that providing a service isn’t selling providing service isn’t selling.
03:56 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay, and what’s number four?
03:57 – John Crowder (None)
number four is this emotion versus logic piece where we ignore a lot. We ignore the emotional piece of human beings when they buy. Because we’re so much logic. Yeah, we ignore emotion.
04:04 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay, we ignore the emotional piece of human beings when they buy. Because we’re so Emotion breakers. Logic, yeah, we ignore emotion. Okay, yeah, now we’re getting somewhere. All right, let’s start with access. So you know. First of all, you describe these as the four issues of healthcare, or how do you describe these?
04:18 – John Crowder (None)
These are four critical issues that are facing healthcare salespeople today.
04:23 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Four issues facing, okay, four issues facing healthcare salespeople today. Four issues facing, okay, four issues facing healthcare salespeople. Okay, now let’s get into it. Access break it down Great.
04:34 – John Crowder (None)
So what we’ve seen in every data point is that access over the last 30 plus years has been declining. But we get this subset of people that say, well, that doesn’t apply to us, and so we’ve got to be able to draw a distinction between. Where is access really becoming more and more strict? Sure, who are those that have access but don’t feel the pressure of not having it, and what are they doing? So, without a doubt, if you’re not a clinical person or somebody that can support a case in the or in the cath lab in one of the labs where they do procedures, if you’re not selling that kind of equipment, a lot of times your access can be very, very limited. It can be very difficult even if you’re in any type of patient care area.
05:16
So we know that that’s happening to most people that aren’t patient-oriented in their day-to-day. For those that do have patient access, quite often they fall under the realm of providing a service. They’re in there to support cases, to give information, to talk about what’s the right thing to do in this particular situation, and while that’s incredibly important to the sales process providing great product, service and support it’s not really selling. Selling is a change process. Selling, true selling is when we change somebody’s pattern of behavior, and standing in the cath lab or the OR or whatever it is and supporting a case doesn’t necessarily lead to that change.
05:58 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So there’s. You described two audiences the ones that just don’t get access. The ones that claim to get access but don’t really have access because all they’re doing is a service fence, all they’re doing is a service piece of whatever they offer. Is there a third group that is doing more than just providing a service that is successfully getting access?
06:19 – John Crowder (None)
Yeah, yeah. And I think it’s the people that know how to really sell. I think it’s the people that understand that your value proposition for today’s healthcare customers has got to be beyond product information, service and rapport building. If you can provide a service, they’re going to let you in, because they don’t have to pay a nurse to do what you’re doing. The company’s paying your salary right and so that’s great Good for them. They’re going to let you in there all day long. The issue is that those that can get in there and say, look, where is it that you are right now and how you manage your patients and where do you want to be and how can our products help you make that transition, and they can have those conversations. And then they can move that conversation beyond what is a logical thought process to an emotional process. So people are either not fearful of change or excited about making the change, and if we don’t bridge those gaps, then people often don’t want to see us or they won’t move forward.
07:14 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So here’s my question, because the first thing I go to when I hear that is compliance. That’s the first place I go to and I think, okay, if I’m a 1099 rep to John’s point I better be using the flexibility I have to be more of a resource to my customer and establishing hey, how can I help them with their business? But if I work for a very large organization that has a pretty regimented process around what I’m allowed to say and not say to my customer to engage business, how am I supposed to do what John is advising and be even more of a business support to my customer?
07:55 – John Crowder (None)
Yeah. So I think it starts with the companies changing and how they train people. If we want people to have more impact, if we want them to have the type of dialogue and exchange that’s value-oriented for our customers, that increases utilization and drives market share, then we have to give them the skillset. We can’t just overload them with product information. It’s not enough any longer. Right, they have to have a different skillset. They have to be able to identify what are the problems, challenges and goals of my customer. What solutions can we offer? Can I close for that next step? How do I move this forward?
08:30
And all of those, quite often in today’s world, are not taught because in the training environment, the trainers are overwhelmed with how much technical information they have to teach and they’re afraid. Right, this is an industry that has a lot of oversight by the government, appropriately so, right. And we know that companies have been burned not burned at their own fault for saying and doing things they shouldn’t have been doing to the tunes of hundreds of millions of dollars. So these companies draw a pretty strict line on what people can and can’t say. But we’re not talking about product information and varying from that. What we’re talking about is giving people a skillset that allows them to connect much better with their clients, to bring more value, to solve more problems.
09:14 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So here’s my big question, then, john, I’m going to put you on the spot Give us an example of what it looks like to do what you’re saying that’s contributing to this declining access, and give us an example of what it looks like to be on the other side and be doing it the right way.
09:31 – John Crowder (None)
Yeah, I love it. I’ll give you the classic example that we deal with all the time and it doesn’t matter whether you’re a medical device or pharma, it happens the same. You’re launching a new product. I go in, we’re all excited, we’re going to launch this new product. And we go out and we see all of our customers and we give them all the information and we’re going to get early adopters. We’re going to get people that can put this piece together and they’re a little bit more aggressive in their behavior pattern and maybe accept it.
10:01
But there’s a group of people out here probably 60 to 70% of the people that product information is just not enough. I don’t think often we consider what we’re asking these providers to do. Imagine I’m treating a patient a certain way for 5, 10, 15 years and then you come in with a new product and you ask me to change to this new product. I have one question for those reps In that situation, who’s taking all the risk? It’s not the rep, it’s the provider and in turn, that provider’s patients when they change the care that they deliver. And so what happens is that, if we don’t recognize that and help them come through those issues and address those issues, identify and address what their concerns are, what their hesitations are, what they need to know, and provide solutions around a new way to treat a patient, they’ll revert right back to their comfort zone. It’s human nature. It’s got nothing to do with whether you’re a physician, a lawyer or a pilot, right? It’s just how human beings are wired.
10:56 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So give me okay. So then I guess, because what I want to hear is, I want to hear what good sounds like. I want to hear what is the rep that walks in with that agenda that you just described, where they’re selling the right way because they’re getting to the core of how to move their positions, business what does that call sound like? What are they saying differently? That the rep that’s just going in there vomiting clinical data? How?
11:19 – John Crowder (None)
do they differ? So first of all, we have to change our mindset or our view about what selling is. Unfortunately, people’s view of selling is it’s information delivery. You come into training, you have that foundational thought process and then we give you all this information. It only strengthens that belief system that selling is giving information. So first of all, let’s back up and say what is selling. Selling is an exchange of value, an exchange of information, and we’re going to identify needs, opportunities, offer solutions and move it forward. Sounds simple.
11:49 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Harder to execute because we have 5, 10, 15, 20 years of behavior stamped into our mindset, so we have to be very cognizant, and so one of the things that we’ve got to do is I hope you’re enjoying today’s episode and I want to let you know our programs cover the entire career of a medical sales professional, from getting into the medical sales industry to training on how to be a top performer in the medical sales industry to masterfully navigate your career to executive level leadership.
12:18
These programs are personalized and customized for your specific career and background and trained by over 50 experts, including surgeons. Our results speak for ourselves and we’re landing positions for our candidates in less than 120 days in top medical technology companies like Stryker, medtronic, merck, abbott you name it. Would you run an Ironman race without training and a strategy? You wouldn’t. So why are you trying to do the same with the medical sales position? You need training, you need a strategy and you need. So why are you trying to do the same with the medical sales position? You need training, you need a strategy and you need to visit evolveyourassesscom, fill out the application schedule some time with one of our account executives and let’s get you into the position that you’ve always dreamed of.
12:57 – John Crowder (None)
You have to really have a great attitude. You’ve got to have a great pre-call plan. You’ve got to know what you want to do when you accomplish in there and when you go in there. And it starts with if you have a particular patient type that you’re talking about, which most of us do, right, how are you managing these patients? What’s going well, what’s not going well? If you could choose it, if you could change it, if you could improve it, what does that look like? Because we’ve got to get people understand that there’s a better option out there. So that’s just one of the phases that we take people through, and then, of course, we’ve got this emotional piece.
13:25
Ultimately, when it comes to sales professionals, though and it doesn’t matter again what the sport is or what the skill is I’ll give you an example I couldn’t teach, I couldn’t learn to fly an airplane by sitting in a classroom and watching a video and listening to an instructor for a day. Right, it’s not going to give me the skill set that I need. So one of the things that often happens in the industry does a wonderful job at spending billions of dollars on training that’s ineffective. Why is that? Because 75% of what you learn in a workshop, you lose within 48 hours. If you haven’t either been executing that or being coached on that skill, you’re going to lose it all. So we spend all this money training folks and there’s no pull through, there’s no back end. How do we change your skill? So there’s a process that happens over time and there’s some variables that are very important to change how adults develop new skill sets.
14:19 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay, okay, so, so, okay, so. So I’m tracking, but but I’m going to challenge it here, john. So right now I’m hearing you know you got to ask these great, basically probing questions. Having a sound pre-call plan and making sure your pre-call plan matches whatever that leader in that practice is trying to do that sounds very fundamental. What is it that you’re identifying? That’s still problematic in the way it’s being taught today.
15:01 – John Crowder (None)
So a couple of things. You know, when we approach, based on how people are trained right, we often approach them with a very product, company and self-centric approach, because that’s what we’re taught. We’re given the tools to go in and talk about our product. So we need to, we need to change that. I think the other piece to this is and revisit with me what you just said. I’m sorry, Samuel.
15:25 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Well, I’m saying that asking probing questions I mean that’s yeah, you better be doing that. That’s not. That’s not. It shouldn’t be new news to any rep. That’s worth their salt out there. That’s performing in the field right now.
15:38 – John Crowder (None)
Yeah, you’re right, samuel, and here’s where the roads diverge. That’s a great question. So what we knew for a long, long time especially when you’re selling a Me Too product could be a cardiac stent, could be one of the pumps that the diabetics wear, that the diabetics wear, could be a statin right Is that I don’t have to really do much more than talk about the features and benefits of my product. So it all became a messaging campaign, and that’s the way our healthcare customers see us is that we provide product information and we see that as a value. Well, we knew after a while, as an industry, that wasn’t going well. So what we did was we said, okay, we have to ask more questions, we have to engage them in dialogue.
16:15
But if you spend any time in the field and you watch reps who aren’t trained in how to have those conversations, they ask a bunch of inane questions and it becomes just as irritating as message delivery. I don’t need you to tell me six times about your statin. I got it. We know what statins do, so that doesn’t. So now you’re going to come and you’re going to ask me a bunch of questions, but those questions are really oriented towards you, not towards the customer, not towards the patient. So, in order to bridge this gap, the fundamental skill is how do you ask consultative questions that are important to the doctor, important to the institution, important to the provider, so that they’ll share with you A where they’re at, but, b what good looks like?
17:05
And once we’ve had that conversation, we have to have the skill set to overcome those emotional hurdles that will stop them dead in their tracks. So it’s not just asking questions, asking true consultative questions based on how you’re motivated, which is let me put the patients first, right? I always tell my sales team, if you put the patients first, it comes through in everything you do and your customers will see that in you and you’ll always have a job in this industry because you’ll have respect. Now the question is that that’s easier said than done. How do you have that conversation where you can demonstrate that skill? And that requires training. It requires retraining of some old habits, overtraining over top of some old habits, and, again, it’s going to happen over a period of time. I couldn’t just teach you these concepts in a workshop. I could give them to you fundamentally, but then I’m asking you to execute something that you really don’t have any experience at and you may get frustrated and very quickly you’ll revert back to your old habits.
17:58 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So then, really, when it comes to the beginning of this with access, it’s about asking the right questions. That’s what we’re talking about right now Asking the right. There’s a challenge in the industry where, with all the training reps you’re getting from their companies, they’re still asking the wrong questions.
18:16 – John Crowder (None)
Yeah, Quite often. That’s why. And so let me ask you a question If you had somebody that could come in and bring you service to the staff, education, food, whatever it is right and support you in a case, and you put them on a schedule and you appreciate that and you had somebody that was going to come in and solve a major problem and improve outcomes, improve patient care, improve efficiencies.
18:39 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Which one do you want to partner with more? I mean, there’s no question.
18:40 – John Crowder (None)
Would you rather be known as man they really support us and give us great product information and great service or would you rather be known as you know what Samuel came in? He was a real change agent for us. He realized what our problems and challenges are. He identified where we want to go. He helped us build solutions that help us take us to where we are today. I can’t tell you enough about Samuel. What a great guy he is. That’s the skill set that we need that we often don’t train our folks with. And here’s one thing I want to say is that the two best sales reps I’ve probably ever worked with in my entire life were both former nurses I’ve probably ever worked with in my entire life. We’re both former nurses.
19:20
Clinicians can make excellent, excellent salespeople, but they need to know the skills of how to make that transition, which is one of our topics. If you take a clinician and you put them in an OR or a cath lab and they’re providing service, they’re very comfortable. Many of them come from that environment, right, but here’s where we change the dialogue with them. That environment, right, but here’s where we change the dialogue with them.
19:41
When you’re a nurse working in a hospital, you’re morally, legally and ethically bound to advocate for that patient, for better outcomes, right? So now that I’m working for the industry, now that I’ve moved over to work for one of these big companies, I don’t want to feel like I’m advocating for the use of my product, so I don’t. And so what we need to do is say, okay, well, you would advocate for that patient when you were a nurse. How do you advocate for the patient? Not for the pump, not for the use of your product, but how many lives you save, how many organs you save, how many outcomes you improve. That’s a different discussion topic than standing in there telling somebody what wire to use or what screw to use, or something like that.
20:17 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
What do you do with this? Okay, and I have a couple of questions. So with this, with this approach, I’m assuming that your, your company and the training you guys offer and focus on allows people to do what you’re talking about compliantly.
20:31 – John Crowder (None)
Oh, absolutely, cause, cause. We’re not talking about products and patients, right? We’re talking about problems and solutions, right? And you don’t want to ever overcommit. Look, we recently walked away from a very big deal with a very, very big company because we weren’t in a position to deliver on what they wanted from us. We were very much welcome and appreciated. So there’s the same standard in healthcare. Whether you’re selling consultative service or training services or you’re selling a stint. We’ve got to stand behind our product. We have a moral obligation there. But these conversations don’t in any way impact what we’re supposed to what we’re allowed to say. It’s really a deeper, richer conversation than that.
21:10 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Sure, and my next question then is so we’re doing all this compliantly? Sure, and you know. My next question then is so we’re doing all this compliantly a more useful approach to get the right information from the customer to give a better service? What about when you walk into you know your rep and you walk in to see one of your customers and they’re like look, I don’t want to hear, look, I’m busy, what do you have? And just tell me what you got and let’s move it forward. Yeah, how do you slow that provider down to do things the way that you’re advising now?
21:39 – John Crowder (None)
Yeah, so you know really, samuel, that that speaks to the crux of the problem, because not only have we conditioned sales reps that that value, that your value proposition, your currency, is the information you provide, but our customers have also become conditioned to that.
21:56
Yeah, so a couple of things. Those type that are like that are generally fit in a particular behavior style we call them doers where they want their information short, quick sound bites, right, but we teach techniques about how do you, how do you overcome that? And the reality is is that you have to be very quick and to the point but ask them questions that are important to them, right, not important to you, not important to somebody else, but important to them. They’ll give you a time. Each time you do that with these kind of really what we call doer type, which are very action oriented, you begin to chip away and develop a deeper relationship with them and hopefully, over time, if you make enough points with them, they’ll actually sit down and give you 15 or 20 minutes. It’s a difficult what we call behavior style to work with, but we teach very specific techniques on how do you connect with folks that think and see the world like that.
22:45 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
That’s exciting, that’s awesome, man. Those kind of techniques are completely invaluable. I just you know. One thing I see from our vantage point is you can’t let your customer intimidate the way you sell. Right and, just like you said, providers are conditioned now to give it to me quick, get out of my face. I got things to do and everyone’s feeding into that. You have to retrain your customer to say wait, wait, this rep is coming in. They have a whole different approach. I got to respect them because every time I let them talk I get a world of value. So I love what you’re saying there. Earlier you mentioned disruptive tech and you mentioned you have to develop a different skill set for disruptive tech. Can you define disruptive tech for us, for all the people listening right now that might not quite know what that means?
23:29 – John Crowder (None)
Yeah, it’s really when a company brings something that’s innovative to the industry, it could be a completely different way than they’ve been treating patients for a long, long time. And I think one of the biggest challenges and we kind of touched on this is that if I’m going to ask you to change your medical practice, it can’t just be on logic and data alone. There’s a lot of emotion and experience and comfort tied up. I’ll give you a classic example, right, and that is when we started having large bore access in the cardiac cases, right, and so we went from having a small hole where we could much more easily control bleeding versus now these large bore access holes.
24:05
Well, guess what? If you’re asking me, as a physician, to do that and I’m not comfortable with that for a variety of reasons right, then I’m not going to do it. I’m going to stick with my old method. So, if I don’t have an opportunity to have an exchange with you about, hey, what would concern you about making this transition? If you don’t make the transition, what’s it going to cost you and your patients and your practice and your business, right? Okay? So what do you need to move from A to B? And it can’t just be again the logical piece. It needs to be the emotional piece, because that’s what will either encourage them to move forward or keep them from moving forward.
24:37 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Gotcha, gotcha, this logical, emotional piece. You know what, if you’re dealing with that, really just removed, removed provider. It just just not. They’re not giving you much. They’re giving you time, but even with the time they give you, they’re not giving you much. Yeah, how do you get them to a place to move them emotionally?
25:02 – John Crowder (None)
Well, first of all, you got to build trust, and I think there are a lot of. They’re nice people. Most providers are really nice people and they’re going to give you time. They know you’re trying to do your job, but they probably see very little value in what we all do right Because of how they’ve been conditioned over the time. So we’ve got to build trust from folks, and I think one of the things that is really really crucial for all this is to be very sincere. Do I sincerely care? Do I give a dang about you and your practice and your patients? Again, that comes through in everything you do. Now that doesn’t mean that I can nice people to death, right, it’s got to be more than that. It’s a deeper conversation than that. And so what I want to do with those folks and this is true for an introvert, and we’ll talk about that population, because this is what happens is they come in and they’re nice and they smile and we think we have a good relationship with them, but they never change their practice, and that’s because those people need to be asked about things that are important to them.
25:54
Think about any product, no matter how shy you are. Any product, any adventure, any skill, any vacation, and ask anybody that you ever run into that’s an introvert, or rather shy, and ask them about that and see how they open up and share with you. So that’s exactly what we need to identify and how we adjust our approach. What we need to do is meet our customers where they are, with their behavior, style and how they view the world. And if they’re an analytical type and if they’re a you know more an introvert type, then what we need to do is find out what is their passion and ask them about it and guess what.
26:29
They’ll open up and they’ll see you differently. But you have to be genuine about it. And then you have to have a means to an end. You can’t just go in and ask questions because you want to get educated, because after a while that’s not a value to them. They may share because they’re nice people. But the questions that we want to ask is what’s important to them today and where do they want to be in the next six months, 18 months or whatever it is, and how can I help you get there?
26:54 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Got it, Got it. Do you? Do you use things like the disc assessment in your, in your program?
27:01 – John Crowder (None)
Yeah, absolutely we do. As a matter of fact, we call it behavior styles. It’s a disc assessment based platform. It’s. It’s really the same, We’ve just licensed it in for it to be different. It’s called insights as well, and it’s great it’s. It’s a really fundamentally very sound technique to apply in the sales process. You have to meet your customers where they are.
27:22 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
This is fantastic, john Gosh, you know doing things this way. How quickly. So let’s say, the rep’s listening right now and they’re thinking, wow, john’s onto something here. I want to get access to this kind of training. Somehow they get access to it. How long are we thinking? How long does this transformation usually take for a rep to be showing up the way they’re showing up today and then to be showing up after getting your training the way they’re supposed to be?
27:45 – John Crowder (None)
You know a couple of things. If you want to reference a book to read, we have a new book out called Listen to Sell. It is my playbook. It Listen to Sell. It is my playbook. It is excellent. It’s actually a new edition of an older book called Integrity Selling for the 21st Century, and it’s more up to date and it’s just a brilliant piece of resources. Piece of resources. Edit that out, will you? So it’s a great resource for people.
28:08
But what happens to? How do we get people to change? All right, so first of all, we start with the mindset. Then we have to give you the foundational skills. That’s what’s in the book, that’s the platform, that’s your playbook, right. That’s how you execute. Now you get three things from this. This is what our foundational skills look like. It’s not just messaging, right, it’s conversational, it’s interactive, it’s adaptive, it’s all those things. Then we get a shared definition, right, and when we’re talking about a team, everybody knows how we’re talking on the same level. We all share the same common language. The third piece is the expectations of what good looks like. This is what a good sales call looks like. Now, you’re not going to be there because you learned a different way to sell. It’s going to take time for you. And that’s where we come in with a different approach, because we lead a series of micro learnings, eight follow-up sessions, and we ask really three important questions of folks that have gone through this training. We give them a very specific set of skills to work on in a particular week and when they come back with their colleagues because now all of a sudden there’s accountability and we get around a campfire or a zoom meeting, as you want to call it right and we ask them three questions. Right, and before I tell you what those three questions are, I’m gonna, I’m gonna take a pivot here.
29:23
Adults learn by watching and doing, but the third and one of the most important pieces that’s often missed is adults learn by talking, by verbalizing. When I say it, I it. When you tell me, as a manager, what to do, you own those words, and if I can’t repeat them back to you, if I don’t say them with belief, then I’m going to do it when you’re watching me right. So the reason that I say that is because giving people an opportunity to verbalize is incredibly important for adult learning. So we get them in these follow-up sessions and we ask them three questions what did you do well? What new skill did you execute well? That reaffirms. Now.
30:01
This is when you literally hear their synapses training Samuel, when you ask an adult, what’d you do well when I tried something new, and they tell you that they’re literally refiling or reconnecting their belief system of what good looks like. Then we ask them another question. That’s really important. It’s not what you did wrong, because that puts up defense systems right. If I know what your expectation is of me and I went through it and I missed on something that I wish I would have done we ask them if you had to do it over again, what would you have done? What do you wish you would have done?
30:39
So now they’ll have sudden well, I don’t not sure. So we’re going to get to that point. They’re going to own that when they say what they want to. But also their colleagues are going to. Have you ever tried or did you think about? Now, all of a sudden, we’re. We’re building esprit de corps across our team. Everybody’s chipping in on the same common pathway language and expectation of what good looks like. And the third question is what are you going to do next time, next time you’re in this situation next time with that customer. You said this is what you did. Well. You said this is what you wish you would have done differently. And what are you going to do the next time? And when you take people through that and the adults share this experience with them, that’s how you literally hear them growing and developing.
31:23 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay, so with all that in mind, how long is the typical training, the average? I know you guys have a lot of customized stuff, but how long is the average training that you guys have?
31:27 – John Crowder (None)
So our average training is probably two to three months.
31:32 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So let’s say I’m a rep and I’m performing mediocre and I want to be a rockstar rep. Access has been an issue for me forever and I just need to. I need to show up in a powerful way. I take your training. Three months have gone by. When should I start to expect a change in what I’m experiencing in my territory? Halfway through the training? At the end of the training, a quarter after the training, what do you typically see?
31:59 – John Crowder (None)
It’s almost immediate and it depends on your attitude and your skill. And I’ll tell you why. When people go in with a completely different belief system and a completely different approach in the sales process and they execute those fundamental skills really quickly, right out of the box, their closes, their opportunity for follow-up Now I’m not getting back on the schedule When’s the next time I can come by, when’s the next time I can get in the OR? When’s the next time I can get a case right? You’re not getting those. You’re coming back because you’ve had a value exchange with a customer and they want you back.
32:33
And it is cathartic for people to know that sales is that valuable that you can have a different kind of a relationship and a different kind of impact in the people that you work with. It’s a selling, is a mutual exchange of value. It’s not something you do to people, it’s something you do for people and it’s not confrontational, right. I’m not going to confront you into why aren’t you using my right. I’m not going to, you know, confront you into why aren’t you using my product. I’m going to collaborate with you and if you think about human nature, there’s certainly a small population out there that doesn’t mind confronting docs with how they treat their patients, how they practice medicine. But most of us don’t agree with that approach, especially clinicians. It’s collaborative, right? It’s teamwork. Let’s identify the best solutions. And now I feel completely different about the value I bring to my customer and, in turn, their patients.
33:23 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
I love that. I love that. So, with the training you guys have, what do you hear from reps that have been doing stuff? Think about the 10-year rep that’s been selling the way they sell for who knows how long. What is the most common thing you hear from those types of reps that go through your training?
33:42 – John Crowder (None)
Yeah, I say this with all humility, but in all sincerity at the same time, and it makes us all feel really, really good. I wish I would have known this two or three years ago. I wish I would have known this before right, because they know that they have limited value and then so, once they’ve exhausted that value, now my interactions with you become service and rapport building, and I like it. But I’m doing that because I want to feel like I’m working hard for my company. I’m bringing some value, and I can tell you that every rep that can’t do this because they’re not trained can do it, if trained properly, bring a higher level of value to their customers. They just need the opportunity.
34:17
I wish companies expected more or believed more in the ability of their team. We train people to do this all over the world. It changes their careers and I just wish everybody had that belief system. As far as organizational training goes, we can do more and we need to do more because we need to have better relationships with our customers. We need to bring more value to them than what we’re doing right now.
34:40 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Absolutely With this type of approach. Does it create more administration, more time practicing, more time doing anything as far as being the best job you can be? Or have you seen it maybe go the opposite way, where it makes you more efficient? You actually end up spending less time doing administration and things like that to be the best.
34:59 – John Crowder (None)
I think anybody that sells more knows that you have more admin tied to it. But here’s the thing, right, you’re not doing the frivolous things. When I realize and I understand how I can move an account forward, how I can move a practice forward, how I can move a doctor forward and I get that down, I spend less wasted time in what I call the service vortex. People want to feel busy, they want to feel like they’re earning their paycheck, so they’ll do busy work. Well, guess what? When you learn to sell properly, when you improve that interaction, that relationship, when you start moving people forward, when you become a problem solver, you fixate or you gravitate towards those skills and away from the things. I just had a call yesterday and you know the comment was is that people are just going by the offices and they’re doing the same old pattern that we talked about earlier, and that’s because they haven’t been able to identify or develop a skill that allows them to have a deeper, more meaningful connection with their customers.
35:54 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Sure, Now, is this approach something you can only exercise when you’re in front of the customer, or can you do this through email? Can you do this through leaving a note with a provider that maybe has no access, is a no access rep provider? How do you especially as we’re talking about access here how do you utilize this approach when you truly have no access?
36:14 – John Crowder (None)
Yeah, that’s a great point. We actually teach a class on that, and so there are some very startling statistics on what clients whether they’re clinical or non-clinical what they will read and when they will read them. We’re talking about a text message or an email or something like that, and so what most companies do and I get dozens and dozens of these a day is they send the email and they talk about themselves and product and how long they’ve been around. Look, I don’t have time for that. That doer doesn’t care about you. I’m going to be honest with you. I hate to hurt your feelings, but they don’t care about you.
36:49
Now, if you approach them with I understand you’re in charge of doing X, y and Z in this unit and that your goal is this right. All of a sudden, I’ve got your interest. I want to be able to share with you how we may be able to help you accomplish your goals. Now, that’s a choppy way of me saying that you’re going to change how you reach out to those folks. It’s a skill, it’s an acquired skill, right, you have to practice it, just like you would hitting a golf ball or a tennis ball or whatever, but there are much more effective ways. When I get those emails that come across my desk that talk about their product and themselves or whatever, I just delete them. I don’t have time for that. But if you tell me if I’ve got a leak in my roof and I get something and say, hey, I’m great at fixing roofs, I’m going to immediately gravitate towards that kind of a message. So if we have something that can deliver, solve problems, deliver on a promise, then they’ll pick it up and take a look at us.
37:42 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Wow, wow. You know, right now, there are people listening right now that are just processing all this information that you’re sharing right now. John, if there was one piece of advice you’d give our audience of active sellers right now, they could act on today. What would it be?
37:58 – John Crowder (None)
Yeah, invest in yourself. You are capable of having dynamic, successful, positive customer relationships that change the way care is provided. Not changing from one product to another, which does bring value, don’t get me wrong but a much higher calling and a much higher purpose. You just have to invest yourself, and so, again, I recommend Listen to Sell. I think it’s a great foundational book for you to understand the concepts and the mindset around having a different approach to business. What I will tell you is that it’s liberating, it’s cathartic for people because they see themselves growing, they see themselves in a much more capable way, and it helps you get out of a rut very quickly.
38:48 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
I love it. Before we close it up, I’m going to ask just one more question. You know, I can only imagine that, as you’re teaching this approach, because it can be so new to even very experienced reps or just so much more, have so much more depth in a new rep that’s already been trained, that thinks they know what they’re doing anyway, what is the biggest challenge you’ve seen with adopting your approach and how do they successfully get around that?
39:16 – John Crowder (None)
So you know, we have so many customers and if I rattle them off, you know, I will just say this the three largest medical device companies in the world are our clients, right, the third largest bank and one of the biggest, this chemical company. Right, they all use us because they know we work. So what are the biggest obstacles? Well, two things, actually, three things I’m going to share. Number one is that managers have to buy into this, and it can’t be in a manager way. It needs to be in a coaching way, in a supportive way, and they need to have a coach to these new techniques. Right, how do you grow people outside of their comfort zone? That’s one of the things that I would say, I think. The other one is that, whether they’re new or tenured, right, I think they get to the point where, once they’ve taken the class, they realize that they could have done something much, much better. Right, they could have, in the past, been approaching their business so much better. The skills, so that you do come off with some fresh talent and a fresh way to approach your clients and a fresh way to engage. It’s not just going to happen through sitting in a classroom. That’s just not how human development happens. You got to have a coach that’s committed to that and it can’t be punitive. It has to be very supportive and we teach that part of it.
40:28
How do you develop somebody outside of their comfort zone? That’s a skill. That’s setting expectations outside of their comfort zone. That’s a skill. That’s setting expectations. Let’s have a benchmark of what looks good. Let’s know what we’re going to accomplish. Let’s go into the call and let’s evaluate. When you come out of the call, who’s the first person to talk? It’s the reps. Hey, what went well. What would you do that you’re proud of? Applaud them, praise them. If you had to do it over again, what would that be? Well, I wish I would. I love that. That’s a great idea. And, of course, what do you think we need to do the next time? Same principles. That’s how you get people out of their comfort zones and get them to develop with new people and new skills.
41:01 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
I love it. I love it, john. This was refreshing, as always. You bring in so much value when it comes to selling and medical sales, and thank you for this time. Today, one more thing that we got to do, and that’s the lightning round. Today, one more thing that we got to do that’s the lightning round Are you ready?
41:13 – John Crowder (None)
I am. I’m nervous from my responses last time.
41:16 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
All right, all right, all right, all right. So 10 seconds, four questions. First question is best book you read in the last six months?
41:23 – John Crowder (None)
The best book I read in the last six months is actually sitting right here. My brother got it for me. It’s called Ghost of Honolulu, which is kind of weird, but it’s about a Japanese American and the great patriotic duty that he did when he served in Hawaii during World War II. He actually was one of the founding members of what I would call the CIA, which wasn’t around then in Hawaii. When it came to our interactions with-.
41:51 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
And he fought against the.
41:52 – John Crowder (None)
Japanese he did. He was a Japanese American and he came from the urban and you know there’s a lot of question on their loyalty and I can imagine there were significant emotional pull on those folks. But this guy was really brave and believed in the just thing to do was support the American cause.
42:07 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Wow, that’s it, and that’s a fascinating perspective. I’d love to look at that. Thank you for sharing that. Okay, best TV show or movie you’ve seen the last six months.
42:17 – John Crowder (None)
The best movie.
42:19 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Movie or TV show Last six months.
42:21 – John Crowder (None)
You know, it’s one of the fun things that my wife and I do so. Right now, one of the hot things that we’re watching is the White Lotus, right, oh man.
42:28 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Yeah, that’s good. I know that one Family and Bets, that’s a fantastic show.
42:33 – John Crowder (None)
Yeah, yeah, I think they’re in their fourth season have you watched them yourself.
42:39 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
I’ve started watching the new season. Yeah, I got thinking about it, yeah.
42:41 – John Crowder (None)
That’s what we’re interested in. There are probably a couple other series on there that we watch, but right now that’s the one that we’re going to be doing. That’s awesome.
42:57 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay, and you know how it goes with this question. What is the?
42:58 – John Crowder (None)
best meal you’ve had in the last six months. Give us the item, the restaurant and the location. Oh boy, the last six months. I’m going to have to think about that. I wish I knew the names of the restaurants. I don’t, because my wife usually picks them. I will tell you the place that I went recently was a place in Annapolis, maryland, called Level Level, right downtown, yeah, that’s it, and had a nice meal there and would certainly entertain going back.
43:20 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
But I’m not really picky. We get it if we all go to Level.
43:22 – John Crowder (None)
Yeah, level, I tell you the best. One of the best sushi places I’ve ever been to and a big fan of sushi is. There’s a place in Annapolis, maryland again where I live, called Joss J-O-S-S Joss Cafe, j-o-s-s Joss Cafe and it’s it’s excellent. It’s some of the best sushi around, certainly in this area, josh.
43:40 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Joss and Level.
43:41 – John Crowder (None)
Yeah, yeah.
43:42 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
And and is there any item recommendations at Level?
43:46 – John Crowder (None)
No, I think. I think in general it was just a good little roll number Okay.
43:49 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Received and, last but not least, what’s the best experience you’ve had the last six months?
44:02 – John Crowder (None)
I think anything that you do with your kids is always fun Watching them overcome an obstacle and watching them grow and develop. I will tell you from a personal standpoint. We’ve gotten off to a heck of a start this year and captured a number of new clients global clients with really, really big firms, and we’re super proud and pleased with that. It sends a very positive tone for the rest of the year. Let’s hope we can keep the momentum up.
44:22 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
John, as always, a pleasure. We can’t wait to see you again. You’ve become a regular on the Medical Sales Podcast and every time you show up you’re always bringing us new news. So thank you so much for the information and the pros of wisdom today, and we can’t wait to see you again.
44:35 – John Crowder (None)
Samuel, thank you so much. I enjoy it. I know we have a shared value in helping other people and I think that’s why we get along so well.
44:41 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
And that was John Crowder. You know I love having him on because this is the kind of stuff you got to hear. This is the kind of stuff that’s going to move you forward. Our company is called Evolve your Success for a reason, because, no matter how successful you think you are, there’s always the next level of evolution and it’s the stuff that we discuss today that’s going to get you there.
45:01
If you’re listening and you want to get into medical sales, or you’re in medical sales and you want to be better, then you already know I’m going to tell you go to evolveyoursuccesscom and get access to us and let’s get you to where you want to be. And something I don’t say enough that I’m going to start saying every episode is if you love what you’re listening to, if you love this information, you love our guests, you like the sound of my voice, then make sure you subscribe to the Medical Sales Podcast. As always, we do our best to bring innovative guests that are doing things differently in the medical sales space. So make sure you tune in next week for another episode of the Medical Sales.
45:35
Podcast. I hope you enjoyed today’s episode and remember I have a customized and personalized program that gets you into the medical technology industry as a sales professional or any type of role for that matter. Become a top performer in your position and masterfully navigate your career to executive level leadership. Check out these programs and learn more at EvolvesSuccess.com by visiting our site, filling out an application schedule some time with one of our account executives and allowing us to get you where you need to be. Stay tuned for more awesome content with amazing interviews on the Medical Sales Podcast.
Medical Territory Manager!
I was a Regional Sales Representative for Long-Term Care pharmacy services. I had dreamed of getting into the med sales industry when I went into my career as a nurse, but the pharmacy sales job came to me, and I had just settled. Fortunately, I had a job shakeup that allowed me to determine that now was the time to pursue my original vision.
I absolutely would not have this position without Samuel and the Evolve Your Success community. A lot of people my age would just stop trying, but EYS believed in me.
EYS allowed me to break into the industry in 90-Days after I had been trying on my own for over two years! I had lots of recruiter screenings, and a few interviews with hiring managers, but I was never offered a position.
Before EYS, I didn’t realize I was doing the bare minimum to get hired. I was applying everywhere, hoping to get noticed and waiting. It just wasn’t working! I didn’t know that that was not enough to compete in an industry this sought after, and against people who knew what I didn’t know about the process.
Of course, I had to think hard before making a financial investment that’s reasonably substantial. But when I read the testimonials of real med sales reps on the site and learned that I wasn’t the only one taking a chance on my success, that EYS was sharing that risk also, I knew I had to do it. Though you might be able to cobble together some of the steps of getting a role in med sales from online research on your own, you just can’t know what you don’t know!
The process of going through EYS presents this insider knowledge to the student, as well as giving you a progression of difficulty as you obtain the information, and you begin to master it. Not only that, but they give you access to amazing mentors and instructors, allow you to practice your interview skills, and teach you how to market yourself through social media and your own website! I cannot stress enough that EYS was the factor that made the difference in my successfully landing my dream job! The support, structure, and knowledge gained was invaluable!
I would recommend this course to ANYONE looking to break into medical sales
Thank you so much, EYS! This journey has been life changing and has resulted in the successful culmination of my 18-Year ambition! 
Sports Medicine in Phoenix! I extend so much gratitude to the Evolve Your Success group as I land this role and get ready to pursue my dream job. I am a Physical Therapist who became a little stuck in the profession due to issues with reimbursement and the difficulty for continued growth upwards. I turned to EYS to assist me in learning about the medical sales industry and gain knowledgable mentors who were able to help coach me in this process. I am a strong believer in surrounding yourself with the best and good things will happen. I did work hard, but with the support of my mentors and other colleagues going through a career change, I felt a sense of community and it confirmed my drive to get into this industry. I have already learned so much through the interview process, and feel very blessed to have had the resources this group provided. I have made lifelong friends and I cannot wait to continue to follow others’ journeys to pursue this incredible field. I urge you to give Evolve Your Success a try to gain mentorship, guidance, and support through any career transition.
and am excited to make a difference in patients’ lives as a Pharmaceutical Sales Specialist.
! Though I truly enjoyed working as a physical therapist, I can’t wait to start my career in the sales world as a Clinical Account Executive.
. I owe this opportunity to Samuel, the program, and the incredible mentors at EYS.
