Unfiltered Medical Sales: Why Doctors Buy You Before the Product
Ready to elevate your medical sales game? In the final episode of our Unfiltered Medical Sales mini series, seasoned expert Todd Crowder shares his top strategies for mastering client interactions and building lasting relationships. From choosing the right setting for a meeting to reading the emotional cues of your audience, Todd breaks down the art of creating connection while driving results, comparing the process to learning a manual transmission — smooth, responsive, and always in control.
We explore the deeper side of sales, where emotional intelligence, patience, and authenticity matter more than flashy pitches. Todd unpacks how to build trust with the entire medical team, not just decision-makers, and why treating every encounter like a professional first date can lead to stronger relationships and more consistent wins.
Through engaging real-life stories, Todd reveals how genuine rapport can lead to long-term partnerships, even if the first meeting doesn’t result in a closed deal. He also shares key strategies for maintaining clear boundaries and avoiding the friend zone, where good intentions can sometimes undermine credibility and results.
Packed with actionable advice and sharp insights, this episode is a powerful close to our series, perfect for both aspiring reps and seasoned professionals looking to level up. Don’t miss this final chapter in the Unfiltered Medical Sales journey.
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Episode Transcript:
00:07 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Hello and welcome to the Medical Sales Podcast. I’m your host, samuel, founder of a revolutionary medical sales training and mentorship program called the Medical Sales Career Builder, and I’m also host of the Medical Sales Podcast. In this podcast, I interview top medical sales reps and leading medical sales executives across the entire world. It doesn’t matter what medical sales industry from medical device to pharmaceutical, to genetic testing and diagnostic lab you name it. You will learn how to either break into the industry, be a top 10% performer within your role or climb the corporate ladder. Welcome to the Medical Sales Podcast. Climb the corporate ladder. Welcome to the Medical Sales Podcast. And remember, I am a medical sales expert sharing my own opinion about this amazing industry and how it can change your life. Welcome back to the Medical Sales Podcast.
00:55
Today we’re diving into one of the most overlooked dynamics in medical sales how you show up in the room. We’re talking about real integrity here, the little details like taking a doctor to lunch, and how that can actually have you close the deal or get completely written off. I am joined by the one and only Todd Crowder in another one of our unfiltered medical sales series episodes, so without further ado, let’s get into it. So today I wanted to get into where you go to dinner and lunch matters. I thought that was so cool, and wait, I want to talk about that.
01:29
And there’s one more thing I want to talk about. I want to talk about why your best call point isn’t the surgeon. So let’s get into where dinner and lunch matters, and then we’ll see if we can segue it into the staff. So anyway. So, todd, please, why does where you first of all describe what it means to take a customer to a lunch or a dinner? Why does that exist? What is the reason? What are we trying to do? Let’s lay out the foundation and then we’ll take it from there.
02:06 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
First of all, a lunch is difficult other than being in their office. And then you realize you have to feed the masses, to speak to one or two, but if you can pry them away, those are the times in which they can let their guard down. Why? Because the only thing connecting them back to the hospital, back to the office, is the actual phone itself. Right, so get the expectation of being able to have an hour or two at lunch Two is probably pushing it, but an hour at lunch and then have an infinite time at dinner. Why do you do that? And have an infinite time at dinner? Why do you do that?
02:48
If you’re sitting here talking to me, I always put if my kids were around, the dogs were up and running around and everybody’s got my attention. Or I’m so ingrained into the NFL draft and I’m watching the NHL draft. You’re divided in your attention and I might catch two or three things that you’re trying to sell me on. And then I get to the OR with you and I’m asking the questions that we went over. Right Now, as a sales rep, you can’t turn around and be like Doc, we already discussed this, don’t you remember? Don’t you remember we were talking about this? Were you not paying attention? But you want to take somewhere if it’s a lunch, quick, so you don’t have to travel far, even if it’s the cafeteria. But you want to be able to have somewhere that’s away. And if you’re in the cafeteria, sit in the corner, sit away, so you’re purposely not to where they can be in, or their back is to the, so their back is to everybody else and they are not to be interrupted. It almost gives that signal like do not disturb.
03:55 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So so let me ask you this, todd, when, when you’re doing a lunch, okay, and and you know, I actually do believe it’s different for medical supplies versus pharmaceutical versus medical device, I believe it’s all different, but let’s just start with medical device. So you’re doing a lunch, you know how often is the physician like, hey, I want to know what you got, I want to know how it’s going to be useful. Let’s talk about let’s get into it, versus we’re at lunch. I want to know how it’s going to be useful. Let’s talk about let’s get into it, versus we’re at lunch. You know, yeah, you can tell me a little bit of what you got, but I just want to relax and talk about anything. Give me, give me, give me your experience with that.
04:31 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
It’s a half and half, it’s, it’s I. I realize I can’t use this analogy much anymore because they don’t have many manual transmissions. So it’s the balance between the gas and the clutch and the brake you have to understand when you’re sitting there. You have to understand how much of the clutch you have to let out, how much of the gas, how much of the brake you have to have Right.
04:49 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Right, I like that.
04:55 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Because you can’t just dominate the whole conversation of a butt and throw everything up, because that ends up being features. You didn’t stop and listen. You didn’t give him the benefit or her the benefit of why this is going to integrate into their practice and make it better. So if you’re just dumping, they’re not going to have a chance to relax. You want to ask them about their life Because it’s simple, why did you go to that med school Like you would almost like an interview, in the sense that you are trying to figure out what is it?
05:25
They because they will tell you how the best sell. Don’t tell me everything about this stuff. They’re not going to directly tell you, but if you listen and you understand how they work and you understand what, how they make their decisions and that’s why you have to have almost like interview type questions, show you’re interested in them. Oh, wow, you’ve got kids. What are your kids into If they’re like, who knows, I’ve got a doctor that anytime you ask him about his kids, he just calls them the little pains in the butt. Well, that doesn’t do you any good. By going to ask how the pain in the butt’s doing, I mean, that doesn’t really foster a conversation other than a few laughs.
06:08 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Sure.
06:09 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
But why are you a surgical oncologist? What do you think the most difficult thing about your practice is and it’s not just the patients coming in here and it’s timing. You’ve got to be willing to sit there and have that time frame so you build that. Okay, can I have an hour? Let me take you to lunch. If you can’t go out of the office, let’s just go to the cafeteria. Let me buy you lunch and just give me a little while. That way you can move away. Dinner is even better.
06:38
It’s going to cost you more, I get it, but it’s well worth the investment. The ROI is greater because you can then sit there and have a very comfortable evening. It’s going to be a time frame in which you need to understand how you have all the logic. You want to have everything set up to where you can go deep and nerdy with your product benefits that need to be talked about. But there’s one of the things I put in there it’s important to know about every topic. There is not just your own products, and that’s where that comes into play as well, because I had a surgeon one time and she was the biggest Pittsburgh Steelers fan I’ve ever met in my entire life outside of Pittsburgh.
07:23
I know nothing about Pittsburgh Steelers fan. I’ve ever met in my entire life outside of Pittsburgh. I knew nothing about Pittsburgh Steelers but every single day before I would go to her surgery I would download every information, every rumor there was about the Pittsburgh Steelers and I could walk in there whatever she wanted to talk about the Steelers man. I was a Steelers. I might as well have been the biggest Steelers fan, waving the terrible towels and everything.
07:46 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Momentary Pittsburgh Steelers expert.
07:49 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Yes, but you’ve got to be willing to do that because that’s going to be the difference of separation. You want to know why you separate yourself from your competition, and we talked about in the beginning why you don’t need to badmouth your competition, because you’ve set there, made it a point that you’re a person that has a product that can serve the need of the surgeon, and you’ve been able to do that by separating them away from every other distraction there possibly can be. If you have a, if you sit down in a restaurant, let their back almost be to the to the entrance, so they don’t see somebody coming in that they might all of a sudden get distracted by.
08:29 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So okay, so the this exists for all across the board med device, med supplies, pharma, even diagnostic, you name it the physicians involved, and and lunch or dinners involved.
08:42
This exists. Now, dinners I think dinner’s a little different because, you’re right, dinner like everyone’s let their guard down and you can talk about so many things because you have so much time, usually at a dinner. But at lunch in our med sales bootcamp, we get clients that come into our program and say hey, I’m a sales rep and I can’t figure out how to properly have this conversation. When I opened up the door to try to develop a relationship, the doctor just wants to talk about the relationship and they don’t even want to talk about my products. When I gave the doctor nothing but products, the doctor didn’t even want to have lunch with me anymore. So how do I figure out, how do I have the right kind of conversation to do a little bit of both, and so what I want to ask you, todd, is, when you hear that, how would you recommend a rep practice being able to masterfully have that conversation to have the right amount of rapport development versus the right amount of product talk?
09:40 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
It is more the lines of dating than anything else you could possibly do. You want to have that surgeon so comfortable with you. He or she doesn’t really care about the product. They probably look the product up themselves by that time frame. They probably talk to a couple of their colleagues. They’re really interviewing you at that time frame to see if they want to do business with you that time frame to see if they want to do business with you. And if you’re just there, they feel in their heart or they feel from a staff point that you’re just there to get a sale and run nothing more than a number and you’re falsely trying to build a relationship so that I can be manipulated. They’re going to snuff that out. And when you’re telling me that, well no, when I go and bring them my widget and I say, here, this is what it can do, all of a sudden you see the window go up. You need to have a radar that goes off in your head and train your mind to go Stop, pull back and say we can talk about this when we ever do we do a case. We can talk about this when we ever do a case. You have to have enough emotional and situational intelligence to be able to understand the room that sits in front of you, doesn’t really want to hear about your product. They’re a relationship individual. They want to know somebody wants to know them versus just wants to use them. And I think we as reps whether it’s pharma, device, diagnostic, whatever the case might be, even managers we don’t stop and say I want to invest in you, sure, so they don’t feel invested into.
11:23
If you walked into a mattress store and the guy just told you, pointed you to the most expensive mattress and said lay down on it, this is what you need, this is the only thing you need to want to buy. That guy didn’t take a regale, didn’t take time to figure out what’s your pain points. Why would you want to be on this mattress? What do I need this for? You’re assuming it’s for me. Maybe the mattress is. I’m buying it for a guest room. You know what? I love my guests, but I don’t want them to stay, so I don’t want to give them the best bed. It’s because I want them to leave their guests for a while, not for permanent.
12:05 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
And I think reps part of the thing we have to be able to teach, and it’s hard to teach is emotional and situational IQ. Now, one thing in that vein, because you’re right, that is kind of challenging to teach, I mean really outside of I hate to say it, but outside of role-playing. How do you truly master this? And in our program we do quite a bit of role playing.
12:28
But one thing that I have seen work over and over and over again is when you can communicate sincerely now that you truly care about the patient when you can make it abundantly clear that you’re not here for the sale, but you’re here for the benefit of the patient and you’re using whatever array of products you have for the benefit of the patient. That really does open up the door to a better relationship between you and the physician. What’s your take on that?
12:52 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
I think you’re right. And it’s also how do you treat everybody else that you interact with in order to get to the surgeon or to the doctor if you’re sitting there, if it’s a pharma job Because how you treat everybody else, getting up to that will matter as well, because if you’re in his office and your call point is the office, the person at the front desk, the person that’s walking in the hallways, the patients you walk by, every single interaction you have has to be as though that person is the most important individual Facts. My dad, when he passed away, I had a multitude of people at the funeral sitting there saying your dad always made me feel that I was the most important person talking to him at that moment. And that’s what you need to be when I go work at the ORs and I’m working in labor delivery, not to toot my own horn, this is years and years of developing and stumbling and fumbling and finally maybe getting some things right, but I go and try to be the nurse’s biggest advocate.
14:01
You need this. Don’t move, I’ll get it for you. You’ve got enough to do typing in the 17 pages of paperwork to get done prior to the surgery being done. Let me be a help. I jokingly tell them I’m the best free help you got. Use me for whatever you need me to. You want me to go get a suture, I’ll go get. You need me to get a mop, I’ll get a mop. You have to be able to, and that surgeon sees it right. Prime example I was.
14:28 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
I mean, it all gets back to the physician. No matter how you cut the cake, how you treat everyone, always gets back to the physician.
14:33 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
So it’s it’s critical and the surgeons notice it. And the doctors notice it, because I had a surgeon just last it was friday I didn’t have anything to do with her case because she decided the patient didn’t need the product when they got in there. Now a selfish sales rep walks out you don’t need me, fine, I’m out, and leaps A person that wants to be an asset and wants to build that rapport with that doctor to sit there and say I’m going to find ways to use your product. I sat there and I helped Nurses needed suture, the nurses needed more laps and I just basically was her gopher and I walked out of the thing and I said hey, doc, I appreciate you, let me be in there. She goes. No, I appreciate you helping the staff out Because that made their job easier, even though I didn’t use your product.
15:23
I said, doc, I’m just here to make everybody’s life easy. Sure, and that’s just this Friday. It doesn’t stop. There’s never a point where you should ever, ever, treat somebody as though they’re beneath you when you are a guest walking in to that office, diagnostic center, hospital OR wherever it might be. Those that are successful in this business will understand that the security guard to the housekeeping, to the techs to the nurses, all are more important than you are walking into that hospital.
16:06 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So then, what’s your advice then? For the rep that is fantastic at this. I mean rapport building, making people important. They got it down to a T but they’re not making sales. And when you did a ride along or whatever, you got to see how they operate. It’s a lot of rapport, a lot of conversation, a lot of how you doing, how everything’s going great, very little product talk, if any product talk at all. And the rep comes back to you and says, todd, they don’t want to talk about that. What’s your advice?
16:37 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
You’ve fallen into the friend zone.
16:42 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
I love it, the friend zone.
16:44 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
You have become the friend zone. I had a rep that actually was in East Texas I had to do this with and I said you’ve got the most incredible way. This guy was a musician at the same time. He’d play at the doctor’s parties and they.
16:59
I said, at some point in time you’re going to have to ask for the business and if you feel like you’ve gotten too comfortable that you can’t do it, you’re too ineffective at that point to continue on this appointment. That’s the unfortunate part. That goes back to the social awareness of understanding where it is. There is a line. You want to be a respected individual. You want them to like you to be around. You’re more than likely trying to get to a point where you’re trying to be their best buds. That’s not your job. That’s where people make the fallacies, they cross over and they become the friend zone and now it’s too awkward to ask your buddy to go do something for you. And that’s the dangerous part in the line where, when you and I tell doctors all the time and I tell these reps all the time, if a doctor, if you’re, you and I are going out and you’re like, oh, no, no, just call me Samuel. No, sir, sorry, you’ll always be a doctor, whatever your last name is.
18:05 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay, okay.
18:07 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
I don’t change, even if we’re in a social setting, dr Jones is Dr Jones. I might have known Dr Jones, since they were resident and this is a true story. I’m not using their names for a reason, but Dr Jones, I taught how to do a lap colon, was in the labs teaching them. Dr Jones then moved to Houston, texas, from being in San Antonio and became the head of surgery there at a hospital, to a point where I could call him and have him operate on my friends if I needed to. We’re out. And he goes. Man, just call me Tom, I go Dr Jones. You’ll always be Dr Jones.
18:42
I don’t care if you and I are sitting by ourselves in your office, at my house or anywhere else. You’re Dr Jones and that will never, ever change. Because at the same time, you want them to respect you and feel like they can trust you and they want to be around you. But once you cross over and you get to that friend zone portion to it, you’re putting yourself in a situation where you can be ineffective, because then you feel bad. Oh yeah, I don’t want to ask Dr Jones for that favor, but I got to make my numbers. Now you’ve created a situation where you’re ineffective for your own brand and you’re ineffective for the company that you’re representing.
19:27 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
How do you bring it back? Let’s say a rep is listening to this right now and it’s like this is exactly where I’m at and every time I go in there I don’t even know how to bring up my product. How do you bring it back?
19:41 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
You’re going to have to do a dinner, you’re going to have to do a lunch, you’re going to have to get them away from the office and you’re going to have to have a frank conversation. Dr Jones, I really appreciate you letting me come in there to the office each time whenever I want to Sit there and talk with you and be willing to come and do a dinner like this. This is phenomenal. I appreciate it. However, now you’ve got to be able to be that uncomfortable portion. However, I really would like to talk to you about the product and how I think, watching your practice now and listening to you and how well you treat your patients and this is why and listening to you and how well you treat your patients and this is why not to build a relationship. That is a benefit, and I appreciate our friendship, I appreciate the ability, but here’s what I’ve been able to see and observe why my product can benefit your patients even more.
20:30
You’re going to have to step out of your comfort zone and walk into that area where you’re going to have to be a little bit of a sales rep, because that’s your job and you’re paid for. You’re not paid to be their friend, you’re paid to be the sales rep for that company and you have to go back and you have to kind of level set that out a little bit and it’s going to be uncomfortable, it’s not going to be easy, it’ll be the hardest role play and I suggest, if you’re at that point, you find a difficult friend and you sit down with them and you role play this out. Do not go walking into this conversation thinking that I can just shoot from the hip and that Dr Jones and I are going to be cool, because now it’s kind of like the old. I’m old enough to remember Amway and stuff of that nature and you’d always have the people that would, oh, let’s come over have a drink and have a dinner.
21:23
And now you’ve got this whole big mass of Amway stuff we want to sell you. Well, you didn’t really have a relationship, you just wanted to sell me things. You don’t want to be that guy, but you don’t want to be that guy, but you don’t want to be so friendly that they would be afraid to even ask you if you’d want to do it.
21:39 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
One thing that we’ve stressed is, from the gate, just be very candid in the sense of I’m your new rep, surgeon so-and-so or physician so-and-so, whatever space you’re in, and this is a relationship I really want to have with you. I want to be an asset to your practice, I want to be an asset to your patients and I want to get to know you and make sure that I’m addressing your needs and have that candid conversation on the first interaction. We’ve seen that when any rep really goes out of their way to have that candid conversation when they first meet a physician, it really does help in laying the groundwork of the expectations. So every time that rep comes in there, moving forward, the physician’s, like you know what this rep is serious and we can talk. You know friendship, whatever, but they’re going to talk shop and I expect them to because of the way they introduced themselves when we first met. What do you think about that?
22:29
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23:26 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
I think you establish boundaries in which you talk shop and where you talk shop, versus some of the places where it’s kind of like we’re not going to talk. That If you’re able to do that, that’s the perfect balance. That’s the clutch and the gas pedal all matching up together and being able to take the big hill and not roll back and hit the car behind you. But you have to do it from the start, like you said.
23:50
But too many reps I’ve seen over 25 years just want to be the doctor’s friend because that way they’ll buy from me and they’ll use me all the time. And they don’t realize that I’ve had doctors, that I’ve had close relationships, that I’ve been their rep for years, and when I moved to another company there’s more walls up than I thought there would be Like, oh no, no, we’re going to be good. No, I know that doctor great. Until you compete with that doctor, right, right, and I think that’s where you have to remember you’re probably not going to be representing that product. You might be, but there might be a point in time in which you don’t Sure. And so build a rapport, but build a professional rapport.
24:46 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Don’t just look to build a friendly rapport, right, right. So let’s switch gears a little bit. So let’s talk about the staff because you know I think I don’t know if it’s talked about enough it’s critical. Staff relationships are critical. With that being said, we get a lot of you reps that they’re like Samuel. I walked in and I tried to develop rapport with the staff and they just weren’t interested. They didn’t want to talk to me. I didn’t know what to do. Let’s talk. Speak to that Todd. Speak to, from your experience and from what you’ve seen with your reps, what are the most effective ways to break that ice and get that staff member to care about what you sell, who you are and the value you’re trying to bring to this account.
25:24 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Different offices are going to be different sales calls. I have never had an office that’s the same across the board. Sure, remember that person sits in the front desk for a reason and they don’t want to get you back there. The PA or MA or first assist is back there because they realize they’ve got to turn their doctor quickly because the way medical system in America is set up it’s a Walmart type thing. We got to get them in, get them seen, get them out so we can fill another room and move forward. You’ve got to find how that person ticks and you can’t come in there every single time looking just to talk to one person. The way I’ve seen it best for myself, I can speak and what I’ve been able to teach is go find different people in the office you need to talk to. Everybody wants to come in there and go talk to the doctor. That’s where everybody’s person they want to go talk to Because they’re the decision maker. Why not?
26:29
So they think that’s the secret sauce Everybody that’s listening to us. The secret sauce is the surgeon is on the plate out front of the door, but they do not make the decisions, unless it is absolutely they’re like Congress or the vice president that breaks the fine vote. That is it. They don’t have. They rely too much on everybody else. Let’s put it that way.
26:57
So go see the MA, find out who the MA in that place and use your other reps. This is why isolating other reps is a disadvantage to you. If you just sit there and go, they’re my competition or I have nothing to do with them because they have nothing to do with my practice. Build an empire of connectivity in your town through different reps. It might be a pharma rep and you’re a device rep. Your worlds don’t collide unless you’re in the office. But that pharma rep probably has been in that office a whole lot more than that device rep, sure. So find out. From that build say hey, look, you know who’s the MA over there, who really has the say in that office. Don’t go in there cold. There’s no reason and I catch flack, there is really no reason to ever have a cold call in the sense of the old style that we used to go knock on the doors. There’s too much information and there’s too much ability to connect of prior to going to see a doctor or a tech or anything else.
28:04 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Give me an example of that. Give me an example of what it looks like to go to a new account, but not cold call, because of what you’re talking about right now.
28:14 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
You first got to connect with anybody on your team, unless you’re an isolated individual and you have no one else on your team. Connect through your team, see who’s been successful with that individual. Two, your network. Your network of individuals that are in town where you’re at. You want to find who the farm people are. You want to find out anybody that calls on that doctor and work with that staff. I don’t care if it’s the Centos rep, it’s just there to supplies the mats, guess what. They’re walking in that office every single day. They could probably tell you what Mary’s coffee she likes to have, how specially she likes to have it and you know what Miss Mary’s the one sitting in the front desk and ain’t letting you by. Miss Mary, I was talking to Joe, the Cintas guy. He told me this was your favorite kind of coffee. I just want you to have it. Hope you have a great day. Don’t try to get by her the first time. You know what that does.
29:15 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Wow, he thought about me enough to no, it leaves an impression.
29:20 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
It leaves a serious impression and you all of a sudden start building a network of people that that is your big whale that you’re looking at going after. You’ve got to build a rapport with anybody that has interaction with it. It goes back to make sure you’re kind to everybody. It has been a cutthroat industry for 25 years. It has been taught to be a cutthroat industry for 25 years that I’ve been around it. But actually you’re pretty if you be extremely successful, if you’re kind of kind and humble in how you approach things, including the, like I said, including the Centos rep that has nothing to do with anything, sure, or the person that’s going there to pick up the trash, or the individual that comes by and just brings vials from the hospital to the doctor’s office. They know everybody. They have immediate credibility with a lot of people and if they saw that, you took time to find out about them.
30:25
If you go back and you see Joe, the Cintas rep, you know what he got to be good friends with Cindy, who’s the MA back there, and Cindy’s favorite chocolate is whatever, whatever then guess what? You’ve got an end and now Cindy knows that you’ve sat there and you took the time to find out about her. Now you don’t want to do it creepily and all of a sudden you look like you’re stalking the individual and searching on their social media and finding out about them all over the place. You don’t want to go that extreme, but you do want to be able to see that you are trying to gather data enough to be able to show that you’ve cared enough to be able to find out about them.
31:11 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Do you think? Do you think, okay, so we talked about not getting friend zoned, but do you think there’s value in inviting your customers to activities outside of the professional environment?
31:27 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
So office is different than doctor. Okay, doctor, whether it’s or you know, I don’t know what the tech would be that lead from doing diagnostics. Whatever the person you’re supposed to do, try to talk to, for all this pick on myself for surgeons, everybody that surrounds that surgeon you can be friends with and you kind of want to be.
31:55 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Like actual friends.
31:57 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Yes, because let’s go to a happy hour, let’s go to the Braves game, let’s. You know, let’s go and you just do things. I’m just going to buy you guys coffee. What do y’all want? I’m heading downstairs. To go downstairs. Who wants coffee? Great, let me go get it. What kind do you like? Okay, and then start remembering what their coffee is.
32:14
So you don’t have to ask them every time, Because they, when you’re not there, when you sit there and you walk out of an OR, or they’ve got a midnight call and all of a sudden it’s do we pull this product or not pull this product? They’re pulling the product because they’re your biggest sales consultant at that point in time. Because you’ve invested into them, they have no problem returning the favor. It doesn’t have to be mess, it doesn’t have to be every time they see you. You have to get them coffee, you know. But invest into those relationships because those are the ones that are going to be beneficial in your long-term success, because those are the call points that are sitting in the doctor’s ears when you’re not around, and they’re the ones also that will keep out your competition yeah, they’re your champions because they’ve seen and they want to do with Samuel what Samuel’s been given us, and Samuel’s such a nice guy and his products work so well and the patients have benefit.
33:22
In their mind, they will create the patient benefactor of that being saying oh my gosh, our patients seem to be so much better since we’ve been doing this. And it would take something that would be radically different, something that’s so out of this world, amazing, but they’ll probably tell you about it before they even do anything. I have hospitals right now, to this day that their techs will call me and let me know my competition is walking into the hospital.
33:49 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Yeah, and I actually wanted to you know before we, before we close it up today. I wanted to talk about one more thing, but it’s more on the. We have reps that come into our program that they for lack of a better way of saying it they get hated on by their manager and of course, that’s why they’re coming to us with it.
34:10
But they don’t know how to manage the situation because they’re like look, I don’t want to quit because I love the company, I love what I sell, I love everything I’m doing, but, gosh, I don’t think my manager likes me at all and I’m not even sure how to play it.
34:27 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Talk to us, todd, because obviously this is something that’s that’s a good one. Yeah, give me the kind of situation.
34:35 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Yeah, so. So we had a rep. He was doing his job, he was really good at his job and the manager, every time the rep would do something awesome, the manager would go back to senior leadership and report that the manager gave this rep the idea, and any time the rep wanted to do something above his station to like grow in leadership, the manager would just cut it down. And so the rep’s like, look, I don’t want to quit, but do I? Do I supersede my manager? Do I go to my my area vice president and and and make a case or what? Because anything I try to do that could lead to my advancement, my manager shuts down, and anything I do that’s innovative in my territory, my manager takes credit for and I’m just here holding my bag and I don’t know what else to do. That was the situation.
35:32 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Depending on how large the company is. To me, there are a couple of things that popped in my head. One see if there’s other avenues in which you can work inside the company, build a rapport with inside Like can you go help with. Speak to that. What do you mean by that Like can you go? Can you start volunteering to go help with sales training?
35:52 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Oh, you’re saying, Well, okay, so let’s talk about it. So you’re saying, see if you can do some other thing. You know that’s, that’s an, that that’s aligned with your role, but you have to go through your manager to get access to those opportunities.
36:07 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Typically most sales training, you might not have to go through your manager, you might be able to make friends with the sales trainer. Then have the sales trainer request you. Now, the sales trainer requesting you, might come back to your manager. But then now you’ve opened up more eyes.
36:21 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
If the sales manager is reluctant, Reluctant to let you go, Then more eyes If the sales manager is reluctant they have to tell that sales trainer oh no, he or she doesn’t understand.
36:31 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Blah, blah, blah. Well then, all the sales trainers involved. So now you’ve opened their eyes up. So in a way you’ve got to kind of peel back this onion so everybody else sees it. So if it’s really that unfair, no matter what you do, you’ve got to kind of volunteer yourself out to let other people help out. Go talk to other reps, help them out. Go to a conference call. Hey, talk to the manager that’s in the territory beside yours and go make sure you’re an asset to them.
37:03 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Talk to their colleague, let’s talk about that. Let’s talk about that because if you go to a the neighboring territory and you talk to that manager, the first thing that manager is going to do is tell your manager that they talk to you so not about the situation.
37:16
So you want to again? No, no, I’m not. I’m not, I’m not even talking about situation. I’m just saying if you’re going to another manager, that manager can say say, oh yeah, oh, thank you for wanting to help, samuel. That’s fantastic. And they’re either going to say, have you spoken to your manager about this, or they’re going to call your manager directly and say, hey, I just wanted you to know, samuel reached out to us and he wants to help do this, that and the other Great, it’s time to have the uncomfortable conversation, because then their manager is going to come back to you and go.
37:43 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Why did you do that? I just wanted to be an asset. I talked to Joe over there and Joe and Cindy were having problems and I’ve dealt with this and been able to surpass it. So they thought it would be good if I got on a conference call with them and talked to their manager. Why didn’t you tell me? Well, I didn’t really think it was necessary because I was doing this after hours. So now a manager knows you. Like I said, you have to shine light to darkness, to let things be exposed. I’m a firm believer that you have to be able to. If you’re not willing to have the uncomfortable conversation because you’re afraid of where it might go, then you have to volunteer yourself out. If you truly love the company, love the mission, love what you’re selling and you don’t want to go find your way out of that company, then you’ve got to expose yourself to being an asset to everybody else around.
38:38 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Do you support going to your manager’s boss?
38:42 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
No, nor do I support going to your manager’s boss. No, nor do I support going to HR Unless it’s been a violation of something. To say my boss is being mean and not giving me credit for things is not a way to go to HR. Our generation that I’m finding that are coming up believe.
39:01 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Real comfortable with going to HR.
39:02 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Believe that going to HR is my friend and therefore there’s no repercussions on me. So therefore I’m going to go tell HR that you’re being mean to me and I’m not getting my way. That’s not going to go so well for you. You’re going to find yourself on a short list out the door when they first need to have someone go, and that’s when, all of a sudden, that pimp shows up and you’re not making the numbers like you should.
39:26
Not a good idea Going to your boss.
39:31
Your boss is going to go have a conversation with your boss and now, all of a sudden, the person above them is talking to them and you gave them no heads up. Now I will admit, I come from a line of chain of command and I believe, chain of command from military days, from the way I was taught you don’t just supersede and jump somebody, and I’ve told other managers before. You don’t have to worry, I’m not going to go over your head unless you and I have a discussion, and I let you know that I’m going over your head Because nothing’s worse than a blindside, regardless of what they’ve done to you, unless it’s been unethical and immoral, there’s no reason. And just because you disagree with the way you should get to the end doesn’t mean you go jump the individual and go to their boss because you’re not getting credit for it or you’re not having the same light shine on you as everybody else’s. That’s why you volunteer yourself out, because if everybody else sees that you’re phenomenal and that, my goodness, sam’s up here like every other training class to help out and he’s making his numbers Wow, that’s an all-star.
40:38
Hey, todd, you’re lucky to have Sam Right, what do you?
40:41 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
mean, it just makes it easy. Yeah, I get what you’re saying.
40:45 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
So that’s why you expose the light. That’s why at least that’s what I call it Expose the light because of the darkness, so that everybody else can see that you’re a top performer. And in the narrative the individual might be painting against. You Wouldn’t hold mustard because everybody else would be able to see. Now, when you attract yourself and you get all bugged out and all you do is you have your little tight circle you talk to and it’s the circle of doom. You’re just all sitting there shooting at each other and nothing’s ever going to get done and that manager can continue to press down on you.
41:18
The manager, more than likely, is not very confident in their own abilities. They probably don’t understand the business as well as they do. So they begin to micromanage and they begin to take credit for it. They’re not like a pack of wolves, where the lead wolf is in the back pushing everybody forward. They’re trying to say you have to follow me and I will show the way. You know there was a great story one time of Larry. You know Larry Bird, the legend basketball player.
41:50
So if you ever listen to him, give the story, that phenomenal story about when he first, after he left, he became the head coach of the Indiana Pacers and he said I was an utter failure because I could not understand why they would not sit there and do the exact same thing I told them to do every single time and beyond. They wouldn’t sit there shooting free throws. They wouldn’t sit there shooting threes, they wouldn’t spend hours doing that. He said I expected them to follow what I did and not account for the individuality of the individual. He said I was a horrible coach and we came into the front office where he was more removed from that. But it always stuck with me that you’re right, I’ve been a successful rep. You don’t survive 25 years in this thing without having success, absolutely, and be a manager and be a manager of managers.
42:43 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Absolutely.
42:43 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
But if all I’m doing is focused on do it the way I say to do it, I discount the fact of the talents that you have, that you bring to the table Because you’re going to have the abilities to do things that I don’t the knowledge, the delivery, the understanding of the customer. Unless you’re taking over my exact territory, then I can’t tell you how every customer is going to be, and even then the manager has to learn to back off because that individual needs to grow that territory the way they need to grow. Facts Facts.
43:21 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Look, at the end of the day, these territories are businesses and the best thing you can do at the end of the day, these territories are businesses and the best thing you can do for any business is put the right person in position and let them do their thing and support them in every way, every way, in any way you can, as opposed to trying to do it for them. So you couldn’t be more correct, todd. This was awesome. Another, another fantastic segment with you. People have learned a lot today. Thank you for all the wisdom you’ve shared and I love having this conversation.
43:48 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Oh, me too. I love this. This is the highlight of my coming into the weekend. It’s like this and it’s like what are you doing? Oh yeah, I got my other podcast ready to go. I’ve never thought in a million years I’d be doing this let’s go man.
44:08 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
If you’ve ever been afraid to ask for the business or you’re wondering why your relationships aren’t translating into results, now you know why. This isn’t about who you know. This is about how you show up, how you listen, how you lead, especially when no one is watching. Big thanks to Todd Crowder for sharing his pearls of wisdom and reminding us that being an asset is not about pushing a product. It’s about what I call the three Ps presence, professionalism and patience.
44:26
So if you got value out of today’s episode, make sure you share it with someone out there that you know is grinding out there in the field. Keep showing up with integrity, because your brand depends on it. I hope you enjoyed today’s episode and remember I have a customized and personalized program that gets you into the medical technology industry as a sales professional or any type of role for that matter. Become a top performer in your position and masterfully navigate your career to executive level leadership. Check out these programs and learn more at EvolvesAssesscom by visiting our site, filling out an application, scheduling some time with one of our account executives and allowing us to get you where you need to be. Stay tuned for more awesome content with amazing interviews on the Medical Sales Podcast.
Medical Territory Manager!
I was a Regional Sales Representative for Long-Term Care pharmacy services. I had dreamed of getting into the med sales industry when I went into my career as a nurse, but the pharmacy sales job came to me, and I had just settled. Fortunately, I had a job shakeup that allowed me to determine that now was the time to pursue my original vision.
I absolutely would not have this position without Samuel and the Evolve Your Success community. A lot of people my age would just stop trying, but EYS believed in me.
EYS allowed me to break into the industry in 90-Days after I had been trying on my own for over two years! I had lots of recruiter screenings, and a few interviews with hiring managers, but I was never offered a position.
Before EYS, I didn’t realize I was doing the bare minimum to get hired. I was applying everywhere, hoping to get noticed and waiting. It just wasn’t working! I didn’t know that that was not enough to compete in an industry this sought after, and against people who knew what I didn’t know about the process.
Of course, I had to think hard before making a financial investment that’s reasonably substantial. But when I read the testimonials of real med sales reps on the site and learned that I wasn’t the only one taking a chance on my success, that EYS was sharing that risk also, I knew I had to do it. Though you might be able to cobble together some of the steps of getting a role in med sales from online research on your own, you just can’t know what you don’t know!
The process of going through EYS presents this insider knowledge to the student, as well as giving you a progression of difficulty as you obtain the information, and you begin to master it. Not only that, but they give you access to amazing mentors and instructors, allow you to practice your interview skills, and teach you how to market yourself through social media and your own website! I cannot stress enough that EYS was the factor that made the difference in my successfully landing my dream job! The support, structure, and knowledge gained was invaluable!
I would recommend this course to ANYONE looking to break into medical sales
Thank you so much, EYS! This journey has been life changing and has resulted in the successful culmination of my 18-Year ambition! 
Sports Medicine in Phoenix! I extend so much gratitude to the Evolve Your Success group as I land this role and get ready to pursue my dream job. I am a Physical Therapist who became a little stuck in the profession due to issues with reimbursement and the difficulty for continued growth upwards. I turned to EYS to assist me in learning about the medical sales industry and gain knowledgable mentors who were able to help coach me in this process. I am a strong believer in surrounding yourself with the best and good things will happen. I did work hard, but with the support of my mentors and other colleagues going through a career change, I felt a sense of community and it confirmed my drive to get into this industry. I have already learned so much through the interview process, and feel very blessed to have had the resources this group provided. I have made lifelong friends and I cannot wait to continue to follow others’ journeys to pursue this incredible field. I urge you to give Evolve Your Success a try to gain mentorship, guidance, and support through any career transition.
and am excited to make a difference in patients’ lives as a Pharmaceutical Sales Specialist.
! Though I truly enjoyed working as a physical therapist, I can’t wait to start my career in the sales world as a Clinical Account Executive.
. I owe this opportunity to Samuel, the program, and the incredible mentors at EYS.
