Breaking Into Medical Sales: Your Expert Path to Triumph

POSTED ON May 8, 2025

Breaking Into Medical Sales: Your Expert Path to Triumph

In this episode, industry veteran Todd Crowder shares powerful insights on professional presence in medical sales — from wardrobe choices to workplace dynamics. Drawing clever parallels between interviews and first dates, Todd explains why business dress still matters and how details like grooming and attire can shape first impressions in both virtual and in-person settings.

We dive into the complex role of appearance in the medical device industry, including how visible tattoos, piercings, and personal style can impact hiring outcomes. Todd offers thoughtful advice on navigating these challenges — especially for minorities and Black women — in environments where unconscious bias may still be present. The conversation expands into the evolving landscape of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, and how candidates can stay grounded while navigating shifting professional expectations.

Todd also speaks directly to older professionals making a career pivot into medical sales. He breaks down how to turn life experience into a strategic asset, tackle ageism with confidence, and prepare financially for the transition. We wrap with a candid look at maintaining professionalism in male-dominated industries and offer practical communication tips for building strong, respectful relationships on the job.

Packed with real talk, personal stories, and actionable advice, this episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to break into or level up in medical sales.

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Episode Transcript:

00:07 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Hello and welcome to the Medical Sales Podcast. I’m your host, samuel, founder of a revolutionary medical sales training and mentorship program called the Medical Sales Career Builder, and I’m also host of the Medical Sales Podcast. In this podcast, I interview top medical sales reps and leading medical sales executives across the entire world. It doesn’t matter what medical sales industry from medical device to pharmaceutical, to genetic testing and diagnostic lab you name it. You will learn how to either break into the industry, be a top 10% performer within your role or climb the corporate ladder. Welcome to the Medical Sales Podcast and remember, I am a medical sales expert, sharing my own opinion about this amazing industry and how it can change your life. Welcome to the Medical Sales Podcast and to the second part of our unfiltered medical sales series with Todd Crowder.

01:07
In part one, we cracked open what really motivates reps, how fear fuels performance and what really separates average reps from true standouts. But today we’re going to dive deeper. We’re really talking about mastering the interview close, truly reading the room, researching your hiring manager and how to really make yourself the obvious choice before you even show up. If you’re ready to learn what truly gets you hired in this industry, you’re in the right place. Let’s get into it.

01:35
Okay, I want to switch gears a little bit and I want to get back to even before you get to all these parts of the interview and I want to get to just when you show up to the interview, namely, what you wear to these interviews. How are you dressed, how is everything looking? I love that when we opened this conversation up, we talked about you like to make people uncomfortable right off the bat. But before we even get there, what are you expecting to see in a face to face? You know what? Forget even face to face. Face to face or Zoom interview, what? What makes you feel confident that this person’s in the right place, based on what they’re wearing? Give us your opinion on a man and a woman I think you’re a business dress.

02:11 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Okay, I, I, I don’t. It’s like dating. Okay, you’ve got to put your best foot forward. I don’t need you coming in there with a sport coat and unbuttoned shirt. I know it’s different and I’m a little more like I said. I have an influence from the boomer. I’m a Gen Z, I mean you’re saying you want the tie, I want the individual coat and tie as a guy button down shirt tie sitting on right.

02:41 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay.

02:42 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
I don’t care if the tie is flashy, I don’t care if the suit’s flashy, I don’t care if you have your own style, I don’t care if you have a bolo tie, I don’t care if you have a cowboy hat on, as long as you look professional. And this is what I’m going to present to you for your first time meeting me. You would not go on to a date, and nor would you want your date to show up looking like they just found something to throw on to make themselves look presentable.

03:12 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
But okay and that’s fair, but let’s talk about it, cause this is actually pretty nuanced, because so you’re saying that for you, business casuals not the way to go you want, isn’t it? You for an interview?

03:26 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
you want business business yes, business dress absolutely, because what’s the worst, what’s the worst that happens?

03:36 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
you know it’s a good point. Like you can’t. How can? How can that be wrong, even if you’re overdressed, for you know, for lack of a better word, how can that be wrong as opposed to being underdressed?

03:44 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
if the guy so here’s this that individual I talked about before that leans back, he undoes his tie. He wants you to see, oh take your jacket off. You’re not just that. I want to see if he makes you so uncomfortable you slip up and you start acting too casual, sure? Sure, because, like it or not, the managers might be gen, the millennials might be managers, but higher up the chain are old farts like me, or old farts like my dad’s age, you know in their 60s.

04:17 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
And those individuals. So you know, this is a great topic because we get really interesting scenarios. Here’s one I’ll give you. So you have, your, have your companies right, and let’s let’s just be very raw about it there’s predominantly white companies, and all I mean by that is you know, these companies have, you know, 60, 70% white, 30%, everybody else, and it is what it is, Yep and you have. Let’s just take a black individual that has a beard down to their chest. They got everything right. They even got the tie. It’s perfect. The hair, the eyes, it focused. They’ve delivered in every way of the word. But the fact remains they got this beard that’s going down to their beard I mean going after their chest and it stands out, and it stands out powerfully. They show up to your interview. Give us your thoughts, Todd.

05:02 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
I don’t care, you don’t care, you don’t care, I don’t care about the beard, unless it looks like he’s never kept it and it looks like it’s scraggly. He looks more like Duck Dynasty. You can’t walk in and he’s been sitting there in the woods for six weeks and hasn’t shaved. It’s not kept. But if it’s kept and it’s long and then it comes down to here, part of it’s kept and it’s long and then it comes down to here, part of it’s culture. Sure, and you have, I can’t discount that aspect of it. Sure, I’m not having, you know, seal Team 6 come in there and, you know, high in tights and clean shaven and everything’s pressed to death. No, I’m not. That’s not who I’m interviewing. Sure, I’m interviewing an individual. There has to be some individuality with it, like I, like the fact that somebody could come in with a long beard, or someone comes on with a bolo tie, or someone comes in with a fancy looking jacket that I know I would never be able to pull off.

05:56
OK but you know what I like the fact that they’re willing to take the individuality but also remain professional individuality but also remain professional, okay, so let’s stick with this example. Okay, and I lost my first interview by this, by not being individual and being too, being too corporate for the manager.

06:14 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Wait, wait, you what?

06:15 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
I lost my first interview. I was. I was. I was on an airplane flying back from Atlanta to El Paso, sitting next to a manager of Galdermaerma didn’t know anything about the company. We were sitting there talking. I was still. I was on a buddy pass at the time, so you had to dress up back then. You had to at least have a coat on and slacks. So he, him and I had a great conversation. We went in there and I went there and I went and got my military press. I had everything pressed tight. She was down the seams, everything the tie was pressed, it looked like everything was ironed on me. And at the end of the interview he goes. I just wish I would have seen the guy that I talked to on the plane. That was an individual.

06:56 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Whoa whoa whoa. Okay, I need to get clear on the story. You met a hiring manager on a plane and you were dressed down and you guys had a great bonding moment. You went to the actual interview and you got all professional and dressed up and he counted that against you.

07:12 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
He did because the individual that was sitting on the plane had a nice plaid jacket on, had a nice shirt, but it was unbuttoned a little bit. You know, I had slacks on. It was easy conversation and I’m sure it wasn’t just my appearance Sure, being one of my first professional interviews but he wanted to see more individuality. In fact, one of the questions was why do you pick a solid tie versus something more colorful?

07:41 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay, so hold on, todd. So you’re telling me your first experience you’ve lost for this interview. But in the same vein, you say that you expect to see a suit and tie buttoned up to the max for an interview but the individual can come in there.

07:53 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
However the suit and tie looks, I have a blue suit and it’s not like blue suit. Wow, that’s blue. I got my cowboy, I got my cowboy boots on there, I got my cowboy boots on there.

08:07 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
You wouldn’t wear that to an interview, though.

08:14 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
But here’s the thing Depends on where I’m interviewing.

08:17 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Certain towns, literally wear certain things. You’re right, let’s make it hyper-specific Hologic or Galderma, right? You’re interviewing, for you are the hiring manager and someone’s coming dressed up like that. You would advise that or you wouldn’t.

08:35 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
If your interview on that opening position is in Dallas, Texas, you’re fantastic. If that position’s in the Bronx in New York, you’re a moron.

08:46 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
You know what that’s fair? That is fair Region matters, location matters. I receive that.

08:53 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
So one of the things I was telling you about before we had the panel interview and I was the only white dude in the first. Well, kavisha and I sorry if I’m tripping you my counterpart and I we discussed this a while back and because the territory was majority going to be inner city Atlanta and south, which is predominantly African-American, we both. I said look, I called her up. I said look, there’s no easy way to say this. We got to hire a black person. She started dying, laughing at me. She goes, did you just say that? I said yeah, she goes, I was thinking it, I just didn’t want to say it. Let’s just be honest, it is what it is. The white guy walking into Grady ain’t going to do good. I could be the greatest sales rep in the world. I am not going to fit inside of Grady to be the greatest sales rep in the world.

09:44
I am not going to fit inside a gravy. It’s not going to work. I have twice the hurdle to get over In the same breath. I don’t want to take the black individual and send them to the North Georgia Mountains Because they have the exact same hurdle to overcome. Where you hire and how that person presents, you have to understand. The culture by which that individual comes into. New Orleans is very different than Fort Smith, arkansas. Sure.

10:16 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay, so then okay, so let’s expand the conversation, because now, first of all, I love that. The fact remains that you got to be nuanced and you got to pay attention to where you’re at, which is just necessary. Let’s talk about piercings, right? So woman comes up and she shows the interview and she got the nose ring just hanging out. Everything else is on point. I mean, the outfit is professional as it gets, the hair is perfect, she looks the part, but she has a nose ring right here. What’s Todd thinking? But she has a nose ring right here. What’s?

10:44 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Todd thinking, If she has everything else in checks, I think then at the end of the interview, if she’s my candidate, I’m not going to disqualify her because of a nose ring. But it is going to be a discussion and part of the discussion is I have to know who she’s going to be interviewing with next and what they think. So I think as a candidate, you also don’t need to shy away from the fact that you have one. You also need to understand that maybe inside the OR it might not be as professional to have.

11:16 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So for me okay, I’m just going to nail it on the head For me, I think it’s an absolute no. And here’s why If you got a nose ring, no matter how you cut this cake, let’s just go back to who you are. You are a Generation X. And let’s go back to your dad and your dad’s a boomer. And let’s go to the reality that if you’re entering any hospital system, especially in medical device, you’re dealing with decision makers that are. A lot of them are probably. Most of them are probably Generation X. Some of them are probably boomers. Yeah, you might have some millennials, but not yet. Most of them are still Generation X and boomers and they’re the ones that are just overseeing everything and being a big part of the decision making process. Even if you have a millennial that’s running things, there’s enough boomers and Generation Xers that are part of the decision process. I’m automatically saying a nose ring is going to make that a problem. There’s no other way to cut the cake.

12:15 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
If that person is of Indian background and it is a cultural deal to me. There are certain cultures that you look at and that is part of their culture to it.

12:23 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
That is the only exception, though.

12:25 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
No, it is. It is. But also you have to know where you’re sending that individual, because more and more of my nurses have nose rings sitting all over the place. I would tell them and that’s why I said beforehand we would have a discussion at the end. If they check all boxes with me at the end, I would advise them not to go wear it doing for it. But if you’re inside the OR.

12:52 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay, so hold on. So you’re saying your nurse reps have nose rings.

12:57 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
My nurses, my nurse reps, have nose rings, yeah.

13:00 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Really, I’m not saying so. When they interviewed, rocking the nose ring, all good.

13:08 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
I will say there are different. If they have the, I look like a bull, the one I call this. You’re right, there are different qualifications. I guess If you have the bull thing, it looks like I can take it as a door knocker and knock on you.

13:25 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Yes, that is a definite no, okay, so hold on, let’s talk about it.

13:30 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
It’s hypocritical, I get it.

13:33 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
I think, again, we’re getting more nuanced and this is important for everyone to understand. So you’re saying, if you got the little nose ring on the nose, dot, whatever, a or silver, whatever, that can be acceptable, especially when it’s cultural, but if you got the bull coming out making the little design, action, statement, absolute no and to our discussion. That is what I was talking about. So we actually had, uh, we actually had that and and, and it was tough because the individual was like look, this is how I am, this is how I show up, this is me, and I don’t understand why it should influence how I show up as a powerful candidate. And my stance was I appreciate your sentiment, but the reality is, no matter how you cut this cake, everybody that sees you is judging you on this bull thing before you open your mouth. So you are literally make, especially in this industry, where there’s enough bias existing. Why would you put yourself in a position, unless it’s cultural, which it wasn’t, or religious, which it wasn’t, why would you put yourself?

14:38 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
there’s no, there’s no culture, religion, door knocker right right, okay, let’s be honest. Secondly, if you have somebody like me interviewing you, I can get very fixated on one thing, and if I’m sitting here staring at this the entire time, whatever you’re saying Exactly.

14:58 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
It’s a distraction. It’s a flat-out distraction.

15:02 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
You don’t want something you can control to be the distraction, and that’s completely controllable if it’s a small little dot, like a lot of the Indian culture has around here. I’m less, I’m more liberal in that aspect of things for that. But if it is something gaudy, if it’s like hanging out here and it loops down around here, comes back in or anything, they have to literally they would have to have the perfect interview, the perfect resume, and that be the one thing, and then I’d be like, okay, look, going forward, that needs to come out. If it’s a problem, then we need to depart ways now and I’m more than willing to have that conversation.

15:49 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Got it, okay. Now let’s, let’s. I love this. Let’s, let’s be specific because, believe it or not, todd people showing up exactly like this. So this car, this conversation, is relevant. Men and earrings, no, no, no, okay, hard.

16:05 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
No hard, no, no, no, okay, hard, no, hard, no, hard, no, you can wear them in the OR, if you want, do not wear them through the interview. Got it Period and I don’t care if you’re interviewing with every male, every female, every female, every person you interview, you’re fortunate enough and there are a whole line of contraction. Is the same culture as you? It is still to me.

16:36 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
That’s fair. That’s fair, you know, I, I, I do believe that during the interview process it really is about putting your best foot forward. Once you’ve demonstrated a level of competency, your customers love you and you can do, and everybody knows what you can do and loves you doing it Sure, there’s a little bit more leeway to do whatever you feel comfortable doing. So in the interview process you’ve got to prove yourself first before you can take advantage of any of that leeway, and I firmly believe that it’s the same thing before you can take advantage of any of that leeway.

17:04 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Yes, that’s the same thing. If you can, if you have tattoos. My wife has two sleeves. Okay, she’ll be the first to tell you, having worked in corporate America for herself. She wore because her sleeves have all the way down to her wrist. Sure, you wore long sleeves. She went to interviews with long sleeves. Sure, she never got to a point where she would just have her two sleeves showing, because she knows that some people still to this day do not find it acceptable. Sure, so she she puts it up. I’m sorry, that’s. They’re right, they’re the ones that have the job. You don’t. Tattoos should not be a point in time, in my opinion. Like earrings, this should be shown sure.

17:43 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So now I want to talk about a touchier subject, because this is what we do here.

17:49
So earlier you mentioned how you know if you’re Black, if you’re in charge of the hiring and you’re Black, you’re not going to send someone to the northern parts of Arkansas where you just know they’re going to have serious issues, and if you’re white, you’re not going to send someone to the deepest parts of I don’t know, maryland or something where you know that almost every physician is black and it’s like how are they going to thrive?

18:10
However, the reality is there’s a lot of predominantly white areas and there’s only so much opportunity for a black rep or an Indian rep or an ethnic rep to take advantage of being in an ethnic spot where they thrive, and they kind of have to thrive in a white environment. And I’ll speak for myself Every single company I’ve ever worked for it was white, right? I was the black guy that was being immersed into a white environment and you know, I’m blessed to be able to say that I was able to demonstrate my competencies very quickly in my career, so that it was rarely a question right, and even though I was in I’ll give you an area that’s really really Orange County right, oh, yes.

18:54
Everybody listening. Go ahead and watch a show called something about Orange County and you’ll see what I mean.

19:00 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
My old home office at Applied Medical was right there at Rancho Santa.

19:02 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Margarita, you know what I’m talking about. But the point is my results and the way I presented myself and the way I was able to target how I’d be effective in that space got me the job and I delivered every single time. But you just said that you wouldn’t send someone Black to a predominantly white area like the northern parts of Arkansas. How do you balance that? When do you do one versus the other?

19:25 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
based on my experience and based on what you, state it’s really touchy as a manager, um, because there’s some areas that can be blended and it’s not going to be a problem, but there are other areas that you run into. So the person I referred to on that panel earlier, when she first got hired on, she was not only a female working in a predominantly male, she was also a black woman and she was the only black woman at that company period. Yeah, it was the only black woman at that company period. Yeah, it was no other black woman.

20:00
and so she had to overcome not only the situation of being a black rep and she had, we had a black rep that fell underneath her and was not performing okay and she had to have a serious heart-to-heart talk and tell, and her and I were talking about this and she said you have to understand, as black people, we already are under a tight microscope. As a black woman in this group, you’re even tighter. Black men have more of a leeway than black women. Sure, because we can’t make a mistake. We, we have no room for error. There are watching us and waiting for us almost to mess up and I said that’s not true. She goes Todd, it is true. Whether you want to say it or not, it doesn’t matter, it is true. Look how many black women are sitting inside of medical devices. It’s the smallest number there possibly could be.

20:51 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Those are just the facts.

20:52 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
It is, it is and I think we’ve. Because I grew up going into the inner city of Atlanta playing basketball, I know I look like a great basketball player. I’m all a five 10. I don’t shoot, I can’t really dribble and I have no vertical, but other than that I could foul anybody. Sure, I was a phenomenal basketball player but I grew up going into the inner city of playing basketball, so I loved it so much.

21:15 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
You learned a thing or two. Sure City of Plain basketball, because I loved it so much, you learned a thing or two.

21:18 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Sure, oh yeah, that’s all I’m good for is fouls Five fouls I’m great at. I’m in every all-star team because I can out-hustle everybody and foul out. It’s phenomenal. So I kind of grew up in that era and my dad made sure of it, because he kind of grew up in a blue-collar tough area and, even though I live in suburban white America, he wanted me to understand that what I had was a gift and that you need to understand where hard knocks comes from and be able to be appreciative for what you have. So he made sure that I was down at Butler Street YMCA almost every Saturday when I was growing up as a kid, being the only white kid in the on the court, or we’d have four of us go down with us wow, wow, look at him okay and so I, I grew up a little bit different, and Anna, my wife, she grew up in a completely black church, even though she was literally the only white kid in her school, wow, okay.

22:17
So I think we kind of approached the elite and we tried to sit there and go okay, based on our preferences of life and where we decided to live. But we don’t forget where we came from. And I’m okay with sitting there talking to a black individual saying, okay, let’s just be real about everything. A black guy going into North Georgia probably not a good idea thing. A black guy going into North Georgia probably not a good idea. A black guy working anywhere from mid Atlanta Alpharetta area, where I live, all the way South is going to be perfectly fine, sure, so let’s get you the best hospital that we can possibly get you, to get you a territory, and that’s cool. Every town is different, right, every town is look, you can put a black or white person in El Paso, texas, and they’re both going to fail. They’ve got to be the best you could possibly be, because they don’t want either one of us there. That’s where I started.

23:04 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Who do they want in El Paso Texas?

23:05 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
They want a Hispanic guy walking or a Hispanic girl walking in there. They don’t want the gringo walking in there and I stood out like a sore thumb and I was right out of the military. So it made it even worse because I had my high and tight haircut, my crest uniform, coming in there.

23:24
And I stood out so bad, I mean, and I didn’t know a lick of Spanish, and so it was just really awful and I knew they were all making fun of the Green Gale, because I remember hearing that word plenty of times when I walked out the hallway and I was the only white guy sitting in place. So I think you have to be realistic where you’re going to apply and understand that if you’re of a minority, you’re going to have a higher expectation to reach and the bar is going to be set higher for you, and that’s just what it is and that’s life.

23:59 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Yeah, let’s talk about what’s going on right now. Then in I guess I hate to say government, but like politically, you know, dei is being for lack of a better word eradicated, and eradicated fast. You know, I don’t want to hear so much about what you think about the administration or not. I want to hear more about. Do you think that the fact that DEI is being removed the way it is is going to influence what we’re talking about right now and make it worse? Or do you think that it still doesn’t matter? Or do you DEI or not DEI? We still have to pay attention to the fact that you’re going to thrive based on what you look more like when you’re a candidate trying to get into a certain space, like how do you, how do you feel? What’s going on politically ties into this conversation I think it.

24:54 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
I believe it’s going to make it a little bit of a bar higher for the minority group to have to get across, because they’re going to have to show that they’re not being hired or being rejected. More importantly, because, oh, we don’t have to do this DEI thing anymore and therefore we don’t have to just hire and meet a quota of a black female or Hispanic male or a black male here. And we need to because the pendulum swings back and forth and it doesn’t just swing a little bit, it swings giant one way and it swings giant the other.

25:36 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Everything that’s going on right now 5-10 years, there’s going to be a response. Everything that’s going on right now five, ten years, there’s going to be just an extreme response to it all.

25:42 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
That’s why I wish we could just have a settling, an understanding that by allowing other voices of extremes on both sides to have conversations and platforms to talk from those of us that sit left to have conversations and platforms to talk from those of us that sit left to center, right to center almost, are being forced to try to drive to one direction or another. Because those of us that I believe majority of America sits inside of would be much better to have that conversation than the extremes to the right, would be much better to have that conversation than the extremes to the right. Because I think, if you’re a minority going to work for, like you said, a whole logic or a ethicot or a Medtronic, medtronic’s got a little bit different Medtronic’s pretty diverse, more like a striker.

26:34 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Striker is.

26:36 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
You’re not an athlete or you’re not a foreign military. You might as well just go ahead and like go join the military for a few weeks and then come back and say I’m a military guy, but I think you’re going to have to elevate your game higher If you’re a minority going into one of those companies and if you don’t feel that that’s something you want to do, then go to a different company. You still have the right not to take an interview and be careful in your selection. And in years from now five years from now, when the pendulum might swing completely different you can go back and go interview at one of those companies, because now you’ve got five years experience and that might be your dream company. It might be your dream to be working for Ethicon, and if you just view Ethicon and you’re a minority, I can only I’m not one. But if I was in that position, my mindset would say that might not be the best place. That might be my dream in five years from now. Sure, but I’m’m gonna go do this so I can have experience. I’m not gonna just let that be my no and get done now. I’m still gonna shoot for it.

27:49
Right, I might still take an interview just to kind of see right and test the temperature, yeah, but understand the way the culture it swings back and forth because there was the opposite side. There was people that I’ve known at matronic and comedian specifically, that if you’re a white male, don’t even apply to go to mansions, don’t even think you’re real, you white dudes. You ain’t getting nothing, you sit as a rep or you can leave. Sure, you don’t like that. Yeah. And if you were a minority female dude, you were going to the top, you were heading there, and so you have the opposite of it Right, right, right, wrong or indifferent. Those are just the facts, not meant to be political, but that’s what it was.

28:38 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Since we’re on this topic, I want to. I want to that I’m seeing a lot more of and I want to know your thoughts on it, especially considering you’re Generation X, ageism, right years old that are like you know what I’ve put in all my energy, whether they were a clinician or a business owner or some senior level of some industry that’s in administration of a business. They’re like you know. I put in my time and I want to. You know my kids are grown. I just paid my last one off to college or they’re about to end, and I got all this time on my hands. I don’t want to have any more children and I want to give my all to a career path and I love this medical sales space. I have a lot of competencies in here, but, oh my goodness, as soon as they see my resume or I get on camera, it’s all over. What would you say to that?

29:28
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30:25 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Be careful who you select to go interview with. Be honest with you. Show your worth of somebody that looks around. I was the fifth oldest at whole logic from president down fifth oldest.

30:43 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
What does that even mean? Like the president of our division oh, you’re like the fifth oldest person, yes, in the whole organization yes oh my god okay so they used to no joke.

30:58 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
They used to call me uncle todd, like I have. That was just what they. When I won coe the first time there, they introduced me as uncle todd, walking up on stage. Wow, they almost jokingly grabbed a cane and walked up on stage because it was like wow, I mean the president, the vice president, the vice president of marketing, the vice president of sales, the regional, the area business director is what they called him over there. He was older than me by about four years, five years. My manager, every one of the reps were 30 years and younger and I just laughed. I said you let this old man beat you. I think I’d be pretty upset. So but ageism is real. It is a real thing.

31:42 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
I think you have to be careful who you target you really want to go work with so that’s, that’s tough right, because in our program we have, you know, everybody, you know the majority of our. Well, let’s be honest, the medical sales career builder is designed for someone that wants to break into the industry. So everybody that comes to us is is green, including the older individuals. So you have these 45 to 55 year old individuals that are like look, just give me a chance, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m up, I’m moving, I’m not, you know they’re not old by any standard and it’s like, okay, how you know, in your opinion, todd, how do they need to present themselves to be given a chance?

32:26 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
They’re almost their own minority and they have to present themselves more articulate, more ability to have reasons why life has taught them how to handle adversity, more so than an individual coming right out of college who still doesn’t know anything, but doesn’t know anything about life, hasn’t had to get up every single day and go put food on the table, maybe work a different job, and I want to break into a new industry, but I was working, you know whatever X job and I did this thing for 20 years. My kids are grown and gone and I want to go in there and I’m willing to be able to put the same work in as I did as a mid-level manager, to be a junior rep, to start off the business, sure, and you have to be humble enough If you’re going to go after the big guys. You have to be humble enough to be able to have that conversation and you need to make sure, financially, that you’re okay to do that, because you have to understand that.

33:23 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So that’s what I want to hear, I guess, is you know, Todd, you’ve hired hundreds of people. What would you let’s just be opinionated and specific to you Okay, let’s just be. Let’s be opinionated and specific to you, okay. What would you need to hear from a 52, 53 year old person that wants to be a clinical specialist or or maybe not so yeah associate sales rep in this space? Make 80 grand year base plus a 20 or 30 year commission is totally fine with that. What would you hear from them that make you say I’m going to take a chance on you?

33:58 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
I want to see where they have allowed life to knock them down and them not stay down, because if they’re not coming from this industry, I need to understand it. Because, look, it is not a week go by that every medical sales device rep, no matter how many years you’ve been in this, that you haven’t been knocked out, that you haven’t been put back in your place, that maybe you thought you were better than you were, and then all it takes is a tech or a nurse or even the doctor to knock you back down a few notches for you to realize you’re not one of us, you’re a guest. Sure, I need to hear that they have overcome life and it’s hard knocks, because it’s going to be that and I would maybe because my age, I would tend to lean more to that individual than I would a rookie, just because, if they’ve been able to overcome, if you put two resumes on there and I’ve got an individual that’s worked 25 years B2B, whatever the case might be selling Xerox copiers still to this day and he decides he wants to get out or she wants to get out and go into medical sales, I’m going to ask the uncomfortable question to them are you financially okay? You answer that question. However you want to answer it.

35:22
You can call my HR, but I’m not asking you dollar amounts, are you okay? I’m asking because you’re asking what you’ve been successful with to come step back and go into a new field. You need to be financially sound and not making this move because you’re going to be taking financially a step back before you can move forward. Sure, sure, but you’ve shown me that you’ve been able to go in a B2B situation of selling and understand that you’re going to get kicked in. You’re going to get told no 10,000 times to your one one yes, and you’re okay with it, right? I mean, you just have to display it, give examples to it yeah, no, I get it.

36:04 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
I get it. I want to get back into the, to the dress coat here. You know we address men, but we didn’t address women, and I and I love the fact we didn’t just women, because I want to address women from a man’s perspective. So, like you said, you know I loved your absolute. You were like like, look, samuel, tie, suit, let’s go. I love that. It’s crystal clear, right? So if anyone’s interviewing someone like Todd, you better be, you better have a tie on, or you’ve already. You’ve already lost points stepping into the interview. I appreciate that. What does it look like for a woman, though? What are the absolutes in your mind that you expect to see? Just like a tie for a man, what is it for a woman, and how do they need to be dressed?

36:40 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
I think you’re in a pantsuit yourself. I think you’re dressed up. You have a blazer on top, you have your slacks on, you have I don’t care what color shirt, but you have a nice shirt. It’s buttoned up, it’s not buttoned down. It looks like you could go present on Wall Street if you were walking in.

36:59 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay, so you said pantsuit, a skirt wouldn’t work.

37:03 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
No, Okay, and the reason why is because, at the same time I’m interviewing you, I’m also wanting to protect you, because you don’t want to give off the wrong impression at the same time. Call it whatever you want to call it, you call it sexism, but when you’re the hiring manager and this is going to be your rep you need to make sure they need to know you’re trying to protect them at the same time and that you don’t want to put themselves in a situation where their dress is more provocative to somebody else than it needs to be. Show up in pantsuit. Show up if you want to wear a different color or anything whatever. You can’t ever go wrong with black. You can’t ever go wrong with an undercut, but don’t have something buttoned down. Don’t have a short skirt on, you know, and I don’t want to see somebody I mean, because then people go to the opposite. Shame the skirt all the way to the floor okay, so wait, wait.

38:01 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So not a short skirt or not a long skirt or not a skirt period not a skirt period.

38:06 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Just show up. Just show up in a pantsuit, like you’re going to walk into wall street and present. And if you don’t understand that portion of it, then go watch a couple movies where women have gone in there and presented to places. Go turn on TV. And you don’t want to fit a bad mold. You don’t want people to think that you got the job because your legs were showing or because your blouse was buttoned down too low. You don’t want, because you’re already going to be. Look, you got white men predominantly running the whole thing, then you’ve got the minority men running after that and running the whole thing, then you’ve got white women coming in behind them, then you got black women and Asian women and Indian women all coming in after that aspect of it. So predominantly 60% to 65% of all decision makers are men, black or white. You don’t want the others and you have to look at it from the standpoint. If she’s willing to dress that way, coming to interview with me, how is she going to dress? Welcome to that. Or how are you going to look when the nurse who’s been there and she’s a little bit overweight and she’s grouchy every day and you come clicking in here with your high heels and your high skirt and your dangly earrings and your made-up face walking in there. Oh yeah, no wonder why the doctors want to use your product. And then you get accused behind your back of reason why the doctors like your product because they want to see you there or you’re lending favors. Let’s just be honest we’re going to break the barriers. That’s what you’re trying to protect as a manager yourself.

39:54
True story I had a rep one time who decided to have an affair with a doctor, and I had an assistant manager. She was a female and I pulled her in the office and I said, look, I can’t go ask this question. I need you to find out. Is this true? Because our product sales went through the roof in her territory. That doctor was using everything, even things he had no business using. They went through the roof. And so I had to call and I said look, I need to understand because I have to go report to my bosses why our sales went through the roof and come to find out.

40:34
Yes, she was sleeping with this doctor. They went on to got married, but you’re going to get accused of that and those I can imagine those nurses in that room when she walked in. Oh yes, he’s going to use whatever she’s. I mean, he can walk. She can walk in there and say hey, doc, you know what? We need to switch to all these coffee mugs that say Philadelphia on that Guess what? By the end of the day, we’re going to have nothing but coffee mugs in Philadelphia because she’s over there sleeping with the doctor.

41:05 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
You don’t want that to be your image as you walk into the door. In that particular situation, what was the conclusion?

41:09 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Conclusion was you better not cause the business to go south? Because and I had her tell this conversation I did not have this conversation because there was no way Right, right, but I mean there was no consequence.

41:22 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
It sounds like. It sounds like everything was fine, no Company benefited, she benefited, and then she legitimately married this doctor, which there are no rules against. Nope, and that was the end of it. Yep, wow, I looked up.

41:35 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
I looked up because it could have gone the other way.

41:37 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
And that’s what I was going to ask you. I was going to say how often does that happen?

41:45 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
And do you have an example where it did not work out? Fortunately I do not have an example where that, because I’ve always, from that point forward, I always let reps say look, it’s not a good idea to date within the same hospital that you call upon, in the same territory that you call upon, Because if something goes south, for whatever reason, you get married, you get divorced, you break up you cause immediate attention in that hospital that we are going to have to address.

42:21 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Those are the facts.

42:22 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
And I don’t care if it’s a tech, a doctor, a nurse, a materials manager, you know, whatever the case might be, anybody that has influence inside that hospital. You’ve now created a problem for a company and you, for you being in that hospital, and I promise you you lose. That means we lose. I can’t tell you who to date, I can’t tell you who to fall in love with. I’m just telling you don’t put yourself in a situation where you’re going to jeopardize your business because of a relationship.

43:01 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Wow, and just for the audience, do you see it? A lot dating with reps and physicians?

43:09 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Yes.

43:11 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
But for the lion’s share of what you’ve seen, it all works out.

43:15 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
No.

43:17 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay, so I’ll ask it it again do you have a story or a situation that you know of where it did not work out?

43:25 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
not under my management, of course. I have seen I have seen reps, date nurses, um, and their business not work well and it’s gone because they look. I mean there’s a lot of times they don’t understand this, that you’re going to be long hours with these people and you want to be relatable and you want to let them into your life and sometimes, when you start sharing the intimacies of your life, struggles, bad good into your life and sometimes, when you start sharing the intimacies of your life, struggles bad good inevitably developed spouses this and spouse does this and, and kids drive me crazy of this, and oh, mine do too.

44:10
And then all of a sudden it becomes a little flirtatious and then it’s like, oh you, you’ve got to understand where that barrier or hard line is. It’s okay to be friendly and share. Yeah, you know what? Oh, I did yard work this weekend. Not get too intimate into your details of your life, because that opens the door to for things to go into a different level which can be a jeopardy to your business. Now it can work out. Majority of the times you have a couple of dates and then all of a sudden it doesn’t work out, and now all of a sudden you might have interrupted a marriage.

44:54 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Now. Weird now. It’s weird now.

44:56 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Now you’ve put yourself. I’ve had reps. There were friends of mine that have messed around with PAs. Oh, it’s not the doctor, it’s not really a decision, yeah. But you know what that PA does? It sits next to that doctor and I had a rep last week call me up and said, hey, this doctor just finished their degree. They’ve been here about six months. She and I are really hitting it off and I said, okay, she’s been there six months, you’ve been there eight. I said how big of a business do you think she is? Oh, she’s going to be huge. She’s like the only other GYN in town. And he goes. I really like her. And I said, young man, I’m not going to give his name Casey, casey, please don’t. Young man, I’m going to tell you this is going to go bad.

45:50 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Wow, you just said it like that.

45:52 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Because you’re not in the same town, you’re not going to move to that town. The same town, you’re not going to move to that town. And if you’re not willing to drop things and move to that area, you messing around with this doctor, if you let it get to that point, is going to jeopardize your business in its totality at that. And then I remind every one of them this is a small community, everybody talks, and you don’t want your name associated with somebody that’s going out there trying to earn their way to a hospital by having relationships with people.

46:36 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
How did, how did this person receive it and what happened how?

46:39 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
did this person receive it and what happened? Fortunately they’re young and so I said you’re in a great town with a whole lot of college kids that are young professionals. I would just advise you to look elsewhere. I can’t tell you who to date, but I would think that you’d be able to have better success outside of our industry than inside the industry. You also have to worry about that sometimes when you have inside your own company.

47:14 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Because that can get too dicey. I’ve seen both. I’ve seen a lot more of that than I’ve seen dating doctors or dating staff.

47:23 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
I think it’s also town dependent too, because some things are really taboo, like doctors and reps. They have a distance and they make sure there’s a buffer there. Here in Atlanta, I’d tell you, I’ve probably seen a little bit.

47:37 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Well, don’t get it twisted. Almost every doctor not every, but 75% of the doctors shoot their shot. I’m not saying that I haven’t seen that. Doctors see reps, and especially the attractive reps, and I’ve seen them shoot their shot both ways the female doctor is shooting her shot at the male rep and the male doctor is shooting his shot at the female rep. I see that a thousand times over. But as far as actually mingling and becoming something, I’ve seen a lot more of that in the dynamic within the company of, like, a senior leader and a younger whoever, and I’ve seen it work where they got married and it was just accepted. And I’ve seen where it did not work at all and both people ended up being terminated senior leader and rep. So I’ve seen where it did not work at all and both people ended up being terminated senior leader and rep. So I’ve seen both.

48:23 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Yeah, there was a situation where I was with Ethicon decades ago.

48:27 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Sure.

48:28 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
And this guy was hiring, you know straight out of magazine models and there was some inappropriateness going on and the girls kind of all got together and got him ousted and that company then decided to make sure that everybody stayed quiet. Those girls were promoted.

48:48 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Wow, really, yep, okay, then that’s a whole other episode. Wow, wow, okay, you know, look, yeah, it’s wild. You know, I think gosh, even my younger days, when I first started, I didn’t know what the heck I was doing, I didn’t know what the rules were and I had to learn the hard way. There are things you just don’t do and I got, and I also was blessed to see people do things that I considered doing and now learn that way. Okay, I will not do that, but it’s tough. I think it’s tough because if you have a genuine connection, even if you are a rep and you meet this doctrine, you guys have a genuine connection, you genuinely hit it off and that’s, you know, your soulmate. Who’s to say you can’t explore and live that reality.

49:36 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
So it’s tough. It is tough If you’re going to do that, that, you have to have honest discussion with that individual about the, the job itself, because you also don’t want it to be, for example, um, working with our tissue. I don’t want to have a rep that has a genuine relationship with a gyn or that’s married to g GYN, because then it becomes oh, they’re using or they’re pushing back because of their spouse or significant other.

50:12 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Let me stop you, Todd, because let’s say that is the case. Am I going to fire somebody for it. Right, let’s say that’s the case.

50:19 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
My whole thing about that is and If it’s already pre-existing, you’re hiring the individual, then you know that’s the case. That’s one situation. Okay, if you hire a young, single individual, male or female, and a relationship develops, I think you just I can’t tell you not to do that, but I can tell you you’re jeopardizing not only your business but mine. And if you’re jeopardizing my business, that means you’re jeopardizing my family and I’m not going to put my family without, because I am giving you a piece of my family’s income by me hiring you. I am saying I trust you enough. Here’s part of my family’s income. We’re gonna rely on you and your relationships because I tell people I’m, I’m not, I’m buying your relationship where I, where I work from, that’s what I’m buying.

51:13
Yeah, and if you jeopardize that because he or she can’t not, then that’s a conversation we have to have. I think you have to be willingness, especially nowadays. Where is that going to go? Is this a fling? Is this a serious thing? You know, where are we moving in this direction? If you can’t even openly talk to me, or you tell me it’s none of my business, well, it is. It’s all of my business, because I’m giving you part of my business to move forward. And if you can’t talk to me with it, then maybe you need to explore that relationship more than you need to explore the business.

51:51 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Yeah, okay, before we close for today, todd, we want to A lot to cover. I know, right, this is awesome. I love it. We can talk for like two more hours if we wanted to. We want to hear give us the craziest attire situation interview you’ve ever had. Were you the one that just stands out? That was like wow, that that actually happened it was last, it was two summers ago. Oh my gosh, it was. It was that recent. Okay, man, two summers ago.

52:33 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
I got it afterwards. But this guy walks into, he’s a big. I mean he looks like a defensive tackle.

52:39 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Like, like like a built, or yeah, just Okay, sure.

52:45 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
And he’s wearing a sweater and a turtleneck in July In Atlanta, Georgia.

52:52 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
With a suit.

52:53 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Yeah, with a jacket over top of it, and I’m going. Is he sweating? Oh, profusely Really, oh, and I’m going.

53:02 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Is he sweating, oh, profusely Really, oh, and I’m like come to find out the reason why he’s wearing a turtleneck is because he’s got tattoos. That’s a tough situation, it is.

53:12 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
It is, but he like overdid it, like the sweater, the turtleneck and the jacket in July. I mean, you could have gotten yourself like a turtleneck and just a jacket or, you know, you could have found something out of that. Because all I can keep on thinking about during the whole interview is this guy’s going to pass out. Oh, my goodness, it’s too hot. It is a sweater and a turtleneck and a jacket in july in atlanta georgia.

53:44 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Dude, I can’t even imagine I I can’t even be in a in in a tank top and shorts in atlanta, georgia.

53:50 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
I can’t be in atlanta during july, so I can’t even imagine so I’m thinking how, like there’s one of those things like you said, like a nose ring or something that sticks out. Yeah, the whole. I couldn’t tell you anything about the individual, nothing. There’s not a thing on his resume he could have said, because all I could say there’s this sweat that’s pouring down his face. Oh God, I’m trying to grab this thing and pat his face. My heart goes out to him.

54:22
I did, but all I could think about was dude, why did you do this? And after the interview I asked them. I said dude, what, why did you? Oh, I had these tattoos that come up here and I didn’t want anybody to see them. Okay, the turtleneck I could have gotten with, but the sweater, well, I just thought it looked better. And I’m like no, no, no, it didn’t. It was actually a complete and utter bomb. I said you know, you could have done the turtleneck and I wouldn’t have liked it and it would have been a strike against you if you’d had a turtleneck in the jacket. Like trying to go like the don johnson 1980s I’m the vice kind of look at things.

54:55 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
I mean he wouldn’t. He wouldn’t have had the tie, so he wouldn’t. That would have been a strike for me now.

54:59 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
That’s why you have a panel and you have two other people sitting on there these days, so I might have my bias that says you don’t have a tie. It’s kind of a strike. They might be okay. Well, you’re old, so that’s that’s why it’s your strike, okay, but all the other things. But if it’s just one-on-one, yeah, it’d be a strike, that’s for sure. Um, but yeah, when you. That’s why I try to tell young people, be careful, what you do, sure, like I, I get it in the moment. You think it’s great, I know, but you’re gonna grow up and you’re probably want to have a profession that maybe pays you differently. You might have to dress differently.

55:42 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
You know it’s weird, though right, because at the same time I mean I’m sure you’re seeing what’s going on with Generation Z, where these things are not in medical sales but in other corporate structures these things are becoming more accepted.

55:58 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Oh yeah, my oldest daughter. She has tattoos and she’s a first-grade school teacher.

56:03 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
There you go.

56:05 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
I mean, when I grew up, you didn’t see tattoos on anything that did not exist. You did not see a tattoo, much less a first-grade school teacher, yeah, but she’s got a couple tattoos that sit down through here and I asked her when you went to the interview. I said did you cover it up like we talked about? She goes, yeah, and she goes. Then they found them. I was moving my hand, it kind of dripped down. My sleeve kind of came down a little bit. You know, it showed she has like little feathers there and I’m like, well, what’d they say? They looked at it. I go, okay, so what do you think is going to happen? She goes, I don’t know. She fortunately got the job and she’s been there for five years and now she chose to take two.

56:43 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
But look the pendulum. Like you said, the pendulum is always swinging and it seems to be. I mean, before you know it, people with tattoos that are impossible to hide are going to be the same people making the decisions on who needs to be hired. That’s going to be getting more people with tattoos that are impossible to hide. So it’s interesting. It is interesting, but, as we established early on, it’s always better to be safe than sorry. It’s always better to wear the tie for the hiring manager. That might really appreciate it, versus not and literally count yourself out of loose points because they want to see it.

57:18 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
I just don’t see where a man showing up in a coat and tie and a woman showing up in business dress goes wrong, working in our industry. I just don’t see where that has any play for it to go wrong.

57:37 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Last thing, doctors. Even in my early days, doctors were just doing it all. I had doctors with long hair, gold chains, todd thick, not even black or ethnic white men with thick gold chains, long hair, like free as a bird, and I’m like, wow, you know what do you see now with doctors? Do you feel like doctors are even getting freer and freer and freer? Do you feel like they’re getting more and more conservative? Do you feel what? Do you? What’s?

58:05 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
going on. I don’t think they’re getting more and more conservative. I think they’re getting more and more um. I think they’re getting more and more free, because more and more of them being bought by the hospital, which causes them to be more and more. This is my nine to five, which says then I can do whatever.

58:22 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
I want because I got a secure job and I don’t have to worry about my level of professionalism to attract business.

58:28 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
So if I’m going to have my flowing long hair and I want to have my dangly six earrings coming down and I want to have my tattoos hanging out here, I mean, I always tell the reps guess what? Though they’re the doctor, they get to do it.

58:45 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
It doesn’t mean you get to. It is what it is.

58:48 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
And I always tell reps the one last thing we talked about. Go back to one thing. I always try to make sure reps understand I joked about it. I like when reps buy new cars and buy houses because you know they’re going to go work for that. But I also cars in my houses because you know you know they’re going to go work for that. But I also tell be careful what you buy.

59:03
You don’t want to be the person that walks in the garage and you pull up in your porsche or bmw and the nurse who’s working 312s drives off and and her little beat up honda 1987 accord. You coming out, yeah, and see you pulling out and all they’re thinking about. Well, geez, todd’s over there making a whole lot more coin and I am, and now you build a resentment. Part of it. Oh, he tries to act like he’s a doctor. So you have to be careful in what you even buy. I have a work car. Most cars. If you work with a big corporation, they provide you a car like an Epican or a J&J. Whatever they provide, you can always say that’s what they gave me, go green and give them Teslas and stuff. I’ve had some horrible cars in my lifetime. I worked for Olympus and I drove a minivan. That’s fantastic. But just, you’re a guest, you don’t want to be presumptuous and be ostentatious for men or women and as reps, if the doctor wants to do that stuff, they were on the right.

01:00:21 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
As a rep. There it is. There it is, todd. This is awesome. I love this discussion, todd, for those listening, I hope you learned something today and tune in, because this will be back. We’ll have more topics to discuss on this show. Thanks again, todd.

01:00:35 – Todd Crowder (Guest)
Awesome.

01:00:36 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
I love how we dug deep into truly how to own the interview process. Awesome, I love how we dug deep into truly how to own the interview process. You know a lot of candidates miss the mark because they don’t understand the dynamics at play and they don’t really understand the hiring manager style. They’re not even aware of it. And on top of that, you know the real performers, the real candidates that get the offer. They really separate themselves because they don’t just describe how they’re going to show up when they’re presented with a situation or asked a question. They show up with crystal clear examples that are very realistic. Again, they’re crystal clear. You’re not wondering what they’re trying to communicate and all of this brings real confidence to the conversation. It relaxes the interviewer. It makes them feel like this person can really make something happen if I put them in that position. It makes them feel like this person can really make something happen if I put them in that position. That’s the real difference. But we’re not done yet.

01:01:27
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