Unlock the secrets of the booming laser aesthetics industry with Derek Sanz, a seasoned expert with two decades in medical devices and med-tech. Discover why more dermatologists, plastic surgeons, and med spas are flocking to this elective, cash-pay market. Derek shares invaluable insights on the diverse array of treatments, the appeal of high-end devices, and why the industry is shifting away from requiring a college degree.

 Join us as we navigate the fast-paced, competitive world of medical aesthetics sales. Learn the strategies that set successful reps apart, from managing a rapid sales cycle to staying ahead in a crowded market. Derek discusses the rising interest from male clients in laser aesthetics and hair restoration, the impact of medical tourism, and the consolidation of med spas by private equity firms.

Finally, Derek takes us through his personal journey, from working with life-saving cancer treatment lasers to transforming lives through aesthetics. Understand the emotional highs and lows of the career, the immense earning potential, and how top-performing reps maintain their edge. Plus, get career tips for breaking into this lucrative field, whether you’re just starting or looking to advance. Don’t miss this episode packed with actionable advice and industry secrets!

Meet the guest:

Derek Sanz is a people-centric, high-impact executive with an entrepreneurial spirit, known for his highly collaborative, data-driven approach and passion for building teams, functions, and businesses.

Throughout his career, Derek has demonstrated success in leading and aligning the revenue-generating activities of companies to support global growth, with experience across the US as well as international markets (MENA, EU, APAC, and LATAM).

He identifies top and emerging customer segments and expands his presence in those groups, overseeing marketing and sales teams while leveraging data, strategy, and collaboration skills to scale businesses.

Derek’s leadership style is grounded in leading by example and mentoring teams to enhance individual and company capabilities, fostering a culture of shared success.

 Book – Pitch Anything By Oren Klaff

Restaurant – Paella in Barraca, in Barcelona, Spain.

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Episode Transcript

00:07 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Hello and welcome to the Medical Sales Podcast.

00:09
I’m your host, Samuel, founder of a revolutionary medical sales training and mentorship program called the Medical Sales Career Builder, and I’m also host of the Medical Sales Podcast. In this podcast, I interview top medical sales reps and leading medical sales executives across the entire world. It doesn’t matter what medical sales industry from medical device to pharmaceutical, to genetic testing and diagnostic lab, you name it. You will learn how to either break into the industry, be a top 10% performer within your role or climb the corporate ladder. Welcome to the Medical Sales Podcast and remember, I am a medical sales expert, sharing my own opinion about this amazing industry and how it can change your life.

00:59
Hello and welcome to the Medical Sales Podcast. I’m your host, Samuel, and today we have with us another special guest, and he goes by the name of Derek Sands. This is a must-listen-to episode. You know, one thing people talk about when it comes to medical sales is, of course, the patient impact and the money that can be made. This is the industry where today, currently, maybe even people on his team are making up to a million dollars a year in capital equipment laser aesthetic sales.

01:28
That’s considered one of the most brutal medical device sales out there, but I’m not going to give you any of the reasons.

01:36
I’m not going to spoil the episode, but if you’re someone that’s ever thought about being in aesthetics, if you’re someone that’s ever wanted to make that kind of income in medical sales, and if you’re someone that’s ever wanted to make that kind of income in medical sales, and if you’re someone that really wants to help people feel better about themselves and how they show up in the world and, of course, help people that have any kind of issues regarding their appearance what’s going on with them physically then this is the episode you got to see and you got to listen to it, because it’s going to break down things that are going to speak right to your core. If you’re someone that wants to be in the space, as always, we do everything we can to bring you guests that are doing things differently in the medical cell space. So I really do hope you enjoy this interview. Hey, Derek, how are we doing today? Awesome, man, thank you for having me. I appreciate it Absolutely, man. So, Derek, why don’t you tell everybody who you are and what you do?

02:27 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
Yeah, so again, my name is Derek Sands. I’m out here in San Diego, california, and I’ve been in the med device med tech world for about 20 years now. I have you know I started as a sales rep been promoted a few times. Throughout my career I’ve done a lot of different things. I’ve worked with really small startup companies to really big enterprise companies. You know I’ve worked in private, like private private equity businesses. I’ve done hospital stuff capital.

02:52 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
You’re giving the farm away. We got edges. We can’t give it all to him right now. We gotta let him build up to it. What’s your current position today? Yes, so.

03:01 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
I’m a regional sales director for a company called luminous and we do medical and aesthetic lasers.

03:05 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Oh, let’s talk about it. So you know aesthetics. So you know, is it true that aesthetics is the one industry where you don’t need a college degree? Is there any truth to that?

03:15 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
I think overall, yeah, you can. You can get in without a college degree. I think the industry as a whole is kind of veering away from that as being like a primary prerequisite that a must have. I think some traditional companies still need to check that box. But as you look as industry as a whole, I think other experiences now are maybe holding more validity and more power over that four-year degree, but it’s still a great thing to have. I’m always a big advocate of people getting that four-year degree, but in aesthetics you can do a lot of different things as well too.

03:45 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Fantastic. So let’s talk about laser aesthetics. Let’s be specific now how many different divisions of aesthetics are there? And if you don’t know the exact number, just give us a general estimate.

03:56 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
I mean there’s a lot of different aesthetics, right from like topical skin things to what we do is like devices, energy-based devices. So I would say there’s probably a dozen different avenues you can get into the aesthetic world.

04:07 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay, and with laser aesthetics, what’s it to that, you know? Is that a nine to five? Is that strictly elective? Is that pop in, pop out? Is that weekends Talk to us? Yeah, so we do.

04:18 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
It’s strictly elective, right. It’s all cash pay stuff, right. So we call them plastic surgeons, dermatologists and med spas, primarily. So these are the patients. Are people coming in that want to do like facial resurfacing, laser hair removal, laser regrowth now, certain areas, right, and so all these things aren’t traditionally insurance paid, so the cash revenue streams for these businesses. So it’s a lot of, you know, office based stuff as opposed to being in the or the hospital so.

04:41
So all the clientele, they got money yeah, I mean it’s, it’s, it’s uh, not everything’s expensive, but there’s a big variety of different type of treatments you can get in aesthetics, yeah. Right, because it’s cash and you don’t have to deal with insurance at all Right, and that’s why the doctors and business love it right, because it’s not reimbursements, it’s people come in, swipe in a credit card and they’re getting paid.

05:02 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Wow so when you come in, are a credit card and they’re getting paid, wow, um. So when you come in, are they just like oh, wow, Derek here.

05:07 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
Yes, Derek, yeah well, you know, luckily, we do have devices that make the money right, so they love to hear what we say. We have the best in class stuff. But it’s a super competitive industry, right. There’s a lot of companies that sell a lot of devices and energy based stuff and lasers, and so it’s, you know, a lot of times it’s it’s cutthroat where you’re. You know you’re something against your direct competition and also other people who are buying for the same time and dollars for your customer right, and that could be in a skincare line, that could be another type of, you know, hydro facial stuff and all the different things that go into aesthetic.

05:37
So, yes, I like to believe that they see us like, all right you know we’re gonna hear something great, but it but there’s a lot to it, right?

05:44 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
so. So let’s talk about it. So you know, you said it’s a cut through. I think I’ve had a few aesthetics professionals on the podcast and and I do hear that theme over and over again that aesthetics is one. I think one person even told me aesthetics is the most brutal out of all medical sales because of how competitive it is. So you know, take us into a day in the life. First of all, do sales because of how competitive it is. So you know, take us into a day in the life. First of all, do you work solo or do you have a team?

06:09 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
Yes, I run the West Coast for a little bit, so I have a team of about 10 reps and then we have like sales managers, and then we call them like territorial managers, sales managers that work in conjunction. So a couple levels.

06:20 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
And your reps, individual reps, in their own territories, their territories, their world, and that is that. Or are they working with other? You know ancillary, other?

06:31 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
partners or anything like that. I mean, we work a lot with the clinical and marketing teams, but the reps territory, that’s their business, they run it and you know that’s what they’re responsible for, got it, got it?

06:40 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
And is it a 9-to-5, meaning when a med spa or a clinician’s office opens, that’s when you go to work, and when they close, that’s when you go home. I mean you know none of this is a 9-5, right. So it’s like you know you have your golden hours which is the hours that the med spas are open.

06:53 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
we can get in front of your customers no-transcript, but it’s still open later to like 6 or 7 sometimes.

07:28 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So it’s a little bit of a shift For the average rep, maybe the newer rep? How often are they doing these events? I mean so they’re working between 9 and 5, or 9 to 7, 9 to 6 or 7. Is it an event twice a week, three times a week, once a week, once a month? What does it look like?

07:44 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
I mean once or twice a month. I mean we have some big ones that are company-sponsored. That already goes to me as a once or twice a quarter. You have some trade shows that we still do, right. Those typically are on the weekend and then you can do like with customers that they’re, you know, a good a weekend. A few hours.

08:02 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
It’s not like a big commitment, but it’s still there, okay okay, so day in the life of an aesthetics rep for Luminous.

08:12 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
Mm-hmm.

08:13 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
You’re showing. You know, is it med spas you’re mostly calling on? Is it clinicians you’re mostly calling on? Who are you mostly calling on? Where is the bulk of the business actually coming from?

08:21 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
Yes, I’ll say now, especially in the last couple of years, there’s been a huge surge of med spas opening, and so typically these are small business owners, right, sometimes they’re clinical, sometimes they’re not. So there’s that, right, they all have to have a medical director that hangs their license but not necessarily be the decision maker. They also have, like, plastic surgeons right, we have their offices and dermatologists. Those are physicians, obviously, in clinical, and they usually are the business owner as well too, and they may have partners.

08:47 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So it’s a mix, right, we’re talking with high-end docs, we’re also talking with small business owners, and combination of both so I mean, do you have representatives that it’s 90 med spas or 90 surgeons, and what do they say about either?

09:01 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
yeah, I would say you know we like to sell a lot to the core, which is plastics and derms. And surgeons, right, they tend to buy technologies. And you know, now in this world financing is way difficult, especially if you’re not a non-MD just the way of the world right now. So for us it’s easier to sell to a plastic or a derm. However, there’s a lot more, I think, volume-wise in med spas now, and so you have, you know, typically high-end ones and you have, you know, more of your volume stuff, and so it’s just a different kind of dynamic. In a perfect world you’d be talking to a doctor with deep pockets every time, right, but that’s not always how it happens. So you’ve got to really mix it up, like if you just focus on one, you’re going to miss out on a lot so I mean, how does the selling style change between when you’re selling to a med spa versus selling to a plastic surgeon?

09:49
yes, so I mean, depending on the doctor, right, some doctors really like to be clinical, and you know the lasers, right, it’s optical physics. So you can really nerd out on the tech if you want to, and you know we, we don’t try to do that all the time. Um, we want to know enough about the technology to have a good presentation, but we don’t wanna get too deep in the weeds in it. So I mean, when you’re talking to a doctor, obviously you gotta hit their most important points, which is gonna be more clinical. You know what do the studies say? What’s the efficacy, what are the results? Right, what are the patients saying?

10:19
You know MS-BOS, maybe you’re selling the dream a little bit more, right. It’s the ROI thing, right, and it’s like, hey, you bring this technology in, the patient’s going to come and ask for these treatments, and here’s your ROI over 18 months, whatever it is. And so sometimes that talk track changes a bit. But I think if you’re talking to a plastic or a med spa, you’re still talking about the same things. It’s just maybe you’re emphasizing one or another depending.

10:45 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So maybe you’re emphasizing one or another depending on your conversation. Now, has there been enough presence from companies like Luminous in the med spa space that you know for plastic surgeons if a rep walks in, that’s expected. I mean, that’s been happening often enough that even a new plastic surgeon expects to see representatives to a degree. Is it also like that in the med spa world, or are they like who are you and what do you want?

11:06 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
no, I mean I would say every any office plastic or mess bond gets between about 10 to 15 reps a day at least. Wow, these and all over right. And the good thing about luminous right, we’re gonna gold standard in the industry for a long time the lasers and laser aesthetics. A lot of doctors who trained know about luminous technology from the residency programs of all right, so they know the. The brand is very strong, but there are a lot of competitors now.

11:29
Right, I think you mentioned earlier that you’re interviewing somebody in the state of sales and so that’s the hardest of all. The meds stuff, right, I’ve done a lot all of it. Right, and I would agree with that that this job right now for sales and medical capital and instead of capital, is probably the hardest I have had to deal with, and for a variety of different reasons. You know it’s a different world than where you’re working with hospitals and the award you have by nice committees, right, you have more clinical driven stuff, right, you know, and maybe the competition is not 10 or 15 competitors for one thing, right, maybe one or two. You got contracts you can work with.

11:58
Right, take, take all that away and it’s really kind of a free-for-all, when any company can come in and they got a product that’s really good or a gimmick right. They’re vying for that time, those dollars from some customers. You got to deal with all that and it is you gotta move fast in this world because things go quickly. This, the sales cycle is shrunk down 30 days, maybe 45 days, as opposed to a year, right in hospital. So you got to be highly active. You got to hit the ground running. You got to do a lot of cold calls and a lot of follow-ups. It’s kind of a volume game.

12:27 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So you say it’s a volume game. So is it like a lot of Me Too, like I have this device and they got a device too, or is there a differentiation in the technology so?

12:37 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
both right. So you have companies that have different channels, right. So Luminous is always known as the, you know, for a lot of money and research development, have a high quality stuff. But there are a lot of companies out there that kind of have me to stuff that’s a little cheaper. They have kind of gimmicky things. They have things that they put a lot of marketing dollars behind it really go a lot to direct to consumers. So the consumers asking for these types of services and treatments right, so you get a lot of that as well too. I think you know. You know, in the aesthetics world everybody’s always looking for the next thing. So from the patients themselves to the business owners right, it’s always an ever-evolving door of what’s next, what’s new, what’s gonna catch the eye of my patient population that’s gonna bring them back into clinic and ask them for this treatment. So it’s always evolving and it’s always something new.

13:21 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Everybody’s always trying to stay on the foreground, right up in the head of the curve and, you know, give us a little bit of the the other side when it comes to patients. So, even though there’s a lot of direction consumer going on, reps are never talking to patients, or does that happen sometimes very rarely we talk to patients.

13:41 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
Right, if we’re helping with like an event, say you know, plastic surgeons launching a different treatment, right, they’ll have a party. Their patient population will come in. So you’re talking to the patients are a little bit, but that’s really not our job. We’ll train the staff sometimes how to talk to patients if they’re looking for something and then how to be or to a different treatment, you know. But yeah, reps really don’t talk to patients out of it okay with patients is is.

14:05 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Is laser aesthetics driven mostly by women, or is it actually more even than people think?

14:10 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
I think it’s a lot more even than people think right, and so there’s different uh aspects in aesthetics. You’ve seen a lot of males come in for like laser hair removal, which has been predominantly dominated by female right patients.

14:20
You’ve seen a lot of males coming in now too and doing health services right, and so that’s been a great uptick for businesses, because the patient population just doubled just by more men doing it right, more like facial stuff. Men are getting more involved in that as well too. We just launched a hair restoration device that’s actually clinically proven to regrow hair, and so that’s going to be both men and female. You think just off the top of your mind, oh, it’s going to be a male-driven you know thing, but actually women suffer from hair loss as well too, whereas you know postmenopausal or other things, and so you know for females to regrow hair it’s more difficult, it’s harder for them to get a hair transplant, so they need something. So I think to answer your question is like you’re seeing a lot more. It’s not just female-based, it’s both. Now it’s still not even, but the male population is definitely catching up.

15:05 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So you know, go to TikTok and you put in hair restoration and you’ll see all these guys like flying out to Colombia or to Turkey or to some faraway place, spending a couple thousand dollars and coming back with a full set of hair. Is that good, is that bad? Is this you know? Talk. Talk to us about I know you know what I’m talking about.

15:29 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
Talk to us about harris I would say the risk there is minimal, right, I think we see a lot like in veneers and dentistry and other things, like I think you know, depending on what you’re trying to do, like where’s that risk? Right, if you’re having like a, a laser resurfacing, whether you know it’s a lot of downtime afterwards. I don’t know if I would trust other places that aren’t so regulated, like with the FDA, right? So those regulations are put in to protect people and patients, right, If you’re going to other countries and you’re trying you know you’re saving some money there, you know to offset that maybe they don’t have the regulation or or their correct devices or not trained as properly to do those treatments. So if somebody’s going to do that, I mean that’s their right and they should definitely do as much research and get as much information about those practices and those people doing those procedures for them. And if they feel good about it, then I think you know it’s probably okay.

16:15
But for me personally or for, like, my friends and family, I’m like look, get it done here, because we know what we’re going to expect. Right, you go to Turkey. You don’t know what you’re going to expect for the most part, Got it.

16:25 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Got it Now. You know, years ago I’m talking almost 20 years ago I started out in pharma. And it was general pharma way back then and you know you had these physicians that were primary care physicians that suddenly overnight opened up aesthetics practices and we’re selling all kinds of treatments and this and that you know talk to us about. Does that still go on and it’s still like that and is there a lot of regulation, or is it really just wide open for any practicing position?

16:57 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
so each state has different laws and regulation when it comes to that. But we do see a lot of the internist right, just MDs. You know general practitioners who are now opening up a set of practices because you know it’s cash pay, you don’t have to deal with reimbursements, you don’t have to deal with, you know shrinking reimbursements and you know not making the money you want and increasing insurance premiums and all that right, you know for your own self. So having a cash-paid business is a very smart business move. You know and I always kind of joke around you can tell who, like the general practitioner, right, which ones are doing aesthetics. Is it the one driving the Toyota or the one driving the Ferrari? I’ll tell you which one. It is right, it’s the one that’s driving the Ferrari because they’re making a million, two million dollars a year or more, because they have all these other verticals of cash pay, revenue and all that. So I think personally, if you’re an MD of any sort, you can open up an aesthetic practice, sure.

17:46 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So with that, if it’s that easy, where does the lack of a better word skillset come into play? Like you know, is it just ridiculously varying degrees, or is it simple enough for a physician to understand that you know it won’t be that challenging to provide good care? Talk to us a little bit about what that looks like.

18:09 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
Yeah, so it’s easy, in the fact that there’s not a lot of barriers of entry, to open up an aesthetic practice right, if you’re a doctor, you can do that, but you have to be very business sound. The business itself is not easy. You can talk to anybody that has one. It’s very difficult to get into. As far as setting it up and making money on it, there is quite a bit of overhead and you’re dealing with. You know different types of patients and different type of business right, so now you got to attract people to come in to pay money out of their own pocket for these sources as opposed to people coming because they need something you know from that other general practitioner.

18:43
So I think the ones that succeed are the ones that have bit more business savvy or not. They hire somebody to run that practice for them right there. So the MD behind it it’s their license, right. They’re kind of overseeing everything. They may do some of the more medical study treatments that they like to, but maybe have somebody in place that’s really business oriented and knows how to drive that revenue and bring those patients in, because it’s more of a marketing play as well, too right. If you just go on the corner and open a studies practice, you’ve got to have some marketing or a name behind it to drive patients to you, because even for them it’s very competitive as well, too right. So a lot of practices opened up. So what makes you different than the one down the street?

19:19 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So actually I don’t know that. So it is that competitive now, oh yeah, and I’ll say you know, ever since, like COVID, right?

19:25 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
I mean, the industry kind of exploded during COVID because everybody was at home, right, they’re not spending money on traveling or going out to eat, so they’re saving money. And they’re on Zoom calls all day looking at themselves I’m like man, I like the way my face looks, so they get tired, they go call. Such practices were open because it was medical, right, okay. And so the industry got, you know, it just had this huge uptick. Everything else was going down, medical statistics went up and a lot of people from outside were seeing that and were like, oh my God, let’s open up a medical studies practice, right. So you saw a huge groundswell of new businesses opening up in the last three or four years, and so it has got a lot more competitive.

19:58
Right Now you still have your big plastic surgeon, dermatologist have that name behind them. They’ll always be fine. It’s, you know. You know the forex and mesbos that opened up in the last four years. We’ll see what happens, right. Um, as industry kind of levels out which ones will, will you know, thrive and which ones will, kind of, you know, go up by the wayside. We see a lot of consolidation now. So probably I think groups are buying up like dozens of them and coming under one like central kind of you know uh management of them and coming under one central management.

20:30 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So you’re saying you might have a situation where you have five different small competitive med spas and then a group is coming to buy them all out. They could yeah.

20:35 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
Who’s doing the buying? Who are they? So a lot of these are private equity firms, right, and so what they do? They bring a bunch of money in. They go to Samuel med spa and say, hey, Samuel, Samuel, you got the business here. We want to take this over and offer you an offer to buy a practice and maybe that you’re still in it, maybe, hey, you’re retired or done. Right, that’d be great.

20:51
And so, like, finding these situations, some of them, like, are the ones that are doing really well and some of them, you know, specialize on maybe the undervalued ones who are struggling, buying cheaper, turn around by making money and sell them off again. And so we see these groups and they’re usually just, you know, generic groups run out of a different state that come in. They’re buying 10 or 100 of them, wow, over time, not all at one time, but you’ll see them kind of, kind of getting picked off. In dermatology we see that a lot too. So there’s some big like companies that have 100 or 200 dermatology offices that are now kind of almost like, you know, in a hospital hierarchy where there’s one overarching. Right, right, right, right, let’s get more corporate.

21:27 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So would you say that plastics? I just assume that if you’re a plastic surgeon, you know this business better than anyone. You could probably hire some people and open your own med spa. Or is that not really happening and the people opening the med spas are more entrepreneurs that just want to be in that space? So both so.

21:42 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
I think plastic surgeons. They’re more surgical, but they get devices too, and so they may have their plastic surgery practice, right. And then they might open their own med spa also. So they get patients in who maybe are not candidates for, let’s say, a facelift surgical one, right, but maybe a laser treatment, so maybe they’ll send them to their own med spa, have it done there, and so they kind of have their own referral cycle going on right. And so you see that, and we see that the entrepreneurs who come in and say look, I can do this business, you know, let’s get office space, let’s get a medical director to hang a license and let’s get the marketing machine, you know, kicked up, let’s go let’s take it back to the rep.

22:17 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So what is the compensation model, the typical compensation model for, and, by the way, laser aesthetics? Is it capital device laser aesthetics? Is it all the way laser aesthetics? Is it capital device laser aesthetics? Is it all the above laser aesthetics? How would you define what you do at luminous or what your team doesn’t know?

22:31 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
it’s yeah, we’re 99% capital or cap. Okay, we have very, very little disposables of consumables, so we are, it’s a capital sale.

22:39 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay, so you know our audience. Many people in the industry and a whole bunch of people aren’t Describe for our audience what you mean when you say capital equipment.

22:48 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
So a box, right. So a laser is a device itself. These lasers cost between, say, $80,000 to $250,000. You sell one that goes to your number. You don’t get any recurring residual off of that. So it’s you know. Drop a box, you know, treat your customers well, go find another deal to sell, right. So it’s all a net new business.

23:05 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay, so, okay, perfect segue. So give us a little bit more about the compensation model. Is there a base salary typically? Is it all commissioned typically? What does it look like? I would say?

23:15 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
you know, for us, you know the industry is pretty much in line with each other different companies, but bases are between like $60,000 a year, probably on target earnings first years in the 300s, so let’s say comfortably. You know we have a lot of discretion on how much we sell devices for. So we have a price card, right, you get higher margin. You get a higher percent commission. Um, we can sell lower, but you take the other commissions right, and so I would say the best reps do between six and eight hundred thousand a year. I mean it’s not atypical to million-dollar reps who are making million dollars and more a year every year. Right, it’s.

23:46
Those are, you know, special people who know the business and probably built a business in their area. It’s a lot of countries know them. And there was companies you know that hit their ground running. You know Sinusure. When they brought the ground, you know it was a lot of you know people wanting those devices, right, and so they made a lot of money, right, and so it’s definitely opportunities there. It’s. It’s, you know, it’s. It’s a pretty simple formula of this job. It’s like be highly active, do a lot of stuff and be able to close. It’s not easy, it’s a very hard job and that’s why you see people making us kind of this kind of dollars because it was easy, the money wouldn’t be there, right so right we will, can get in and do it actually survive.

24:30
A lot of churn in this industry, like by 67 percent turnover yearly, and a lot of it is because people think they want to do it but, it’s crazy like we’re always hiring right.

24:41 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Everybody’s always like hiring, because you know when people are down, so that, yeah, so let’s get into it, because I mean, I’m gonna tell you right now. Uh, a hundred thousand people just heard you say that a million dollars can be made, and now they’re really paying attention, so let’s talk about it. What does it look like for that rep that that is making that kind of money? That’s not you know out, that’s just doing this, and this is what they do. Best example you can. What does life look like so?

25:08 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
essentially they have a team right and so they’ll have like territory managers, which is a little below them. All they do is set meetings for them, set closing meetings right, and then the full line rep, the senior rep, will go in and close and so when you have that machine running smoothly, the rep making a million dollars, they’re just every day hitting closing meetings, closing business every day?

25:28 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
How many a day on the average for a rep like that?

25:30 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
If they’re doing that, they’re probably closing two to three big devices a week, so maybe not one a day but, a couple a week, which is a good clip.

25:37
That’s a lot of business and to do that you need a team of people. You can’t do it yourself Right. You have to have people helping you setting the appointments, you know, qualifying these prospects first, getting them to the table, and then you gotta come in and close them and be good at that and then keep doing it and you don’t take breaks. You wanna make that kind of money. You know there’s no holidays, no birthdays. You go when the business is there and money doesn’t sleep right.

26:07 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay, just take it further. I mean, if you can think of a generic person that fits this what does their life look like?

26:13 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
Are they married? Are they single? Are they?

26:16 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
do they really not take any holiday or vacations? I mean, talk to us, yeah, I mean.

26:20 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
I would say at that level, I mean it doesn’t really matter married or single, I think, as long as their spouse understands that A lot of times Saturday is a working day, there’s a six day work week. It depends. Again, if you wanna make that money, you know you have to do so much business per week, every week. If you wanna take a two week vacation, that’s fine, but then you’re not gonna make that. So I think if you wanna just crush it for a new year if one year is I wanna make a million dollars this year and I’m gonna do whatever it takes. I apply a person wouldn’t take a vacation. I’d probably work six days a week and make sure that all these things went up and I hit it hard and then I would take like two month vacation. Doesn’t brown?

26:58 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
so so the reps doing that, they don’t always operate at that. They literally decide when they want to, for whatever reason, and then kind of pull back and just, you know, take the job.

27:09 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
Yeah, I would think it’s pretty unsustainable to do that level for so long, year over year. People do it and you see some people burn out or then they’ve got to take some time and maybe they go to a different company and bounce around a little bit. That happens as well too. But the industry just like all medical devices, it’s a very lucrative and fun industry to be in and really you decide how you want to work your day, for the most part based on what your goals are right, and so you don’t have to do all that madness, right, but it’s still a high volume job.

27:40
You gotta get out there. You know boots in the street do a lot of cold calling and that stuff. But like you can take vacations, you can take your weekends and holidays, stuff like that. You just understand that. Look, you know this business. I always tell people, like you know, march, june, september, december, bad months take vacation January, april, you know, july, october, okay, right, beginning of the quarter, you could take a week off and the quarters are always you know, it’s very much a hockey stick in this business where the back two or three weeks of the quarter is like 50% of business and it’s just.

28:08
It’s just the mentality customers thinking they’re gonna better deal at the end of the quarter, right when it’s something that you don’t deal with in hospitals so much, but in private practice, when they’re small business owners, they think they can get a few more percentages off if they buy it at June 30th for example Right right, that makes sense.

28:24 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
That makes sense. So you’ve been in this space for a while and you’re a leader now. You’ve been in this space for a while and you’re a leader. Now, how? What makes I don’t want to ask this what makes the best kind of rep from your vantage point? You know, where are they typically coming from? What kind of mentality do they typically have?

28:45 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
yeah. So I think in this, in the studies world, you know, I think somebody that’s coming from a good business of business background is important. Somebody understands what the day of life is at tibia level, being out there. You know cold calling up indoors sourcing your own deals. Take him from. You know prospecting, just to close, and able to do that. Everything else I think to be taught.

29:06
But you get people to think they want to do this job and they realize I don’t want to do 20 cold calls a day, right, I don’t want to ask somebody for their credit. You know social security number, get their credit rating right, like those are hard things to do and so you have that or you don’t, right, so that’s the thing we need first. After that we can teach the tech, right. We teach you laser physics. We can teach you protocols, like in anything else in industry, right? That’s the part. So for me it’s like a look for the business background. They come from industry. That’s usually a pretty good sign, depending on the hats or us you know. Other than that is just look, do you have the hunger and the drive to do it? Because, again, like you know, the world is yours. You create what you want in this job. So if you don’t want much, I don’t want you on my team because you’re not gonna perform, right. So I want people who you know want to buy the $2 million house, they want to buy a Porsche, right, they want to take the vacations. I like that.

29:58
Every quarter, we send out a thing called big ass goals, right? So we write down what our big ass goals are. Like I want big ass goals, right. Like I want you to say what you’re going to do with that money and that’s what we’re going to talk about. We’re going to buy a boat Great, let’s talk about that boat, because I want you to drive to make that money to get that boat. Because if you’re doing that, you’re performing and at the end of the day, that’s how I get paid, right, having a full team performing. So that’s what I want people to do. High aspirations.

30:27 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
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31:28 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
It’s a little bit like that, right? I mean, this is a salesy sales job, for sure, yeah yeah, I like it, I like it.

31:34 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So on the other side of that, then right, what does it look like from the company’s point of view? You know what’s considered not performing. When is the company like? Look, if you don’t figure it out first of all, what kind of tolerance does a company like Luminous have for someone that’s not performing, that’s not doing what they need to do in one quarter, two quarters?

31:57 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
Yeah, there is really no excuse for not selling something in a quarter, right? I mean it happens. The quota’s around, say, two and a half million for the year, so break it up about 600,000, five, 10,000 a quarter. It escalates as the year goes on. But if you’re not performing, if you’re 20, 30% of the plan every quarter for two or three quarters, you’re going to be put on a plan, so maybe two quarters, and then we look at okay, are you doing the things? If you’re 20% of the plan one quarter and you’re not doing the things, that’s going to be a bigger problem. Faster We’ll probably have to manage you out quicker. Now, if you’re doing all the things just have bad luck or something personal might happen, be able to take all that into consideration.

32:30 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Hey, this is a good person.

32:31 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
They’re doing everything. There’s a little stumbling block. We’ll get you back up and going and you’ll start performing. So it’s our job as leadership to find out okay, where are the people who are struggling, why they’re struggling and what do we do to fix it. Does that mean put them on plan, manage them out, or does it mean do they need more training perhaps? Or you know some other things and try to do that.

32:51 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So no, that makes sense and then okay. So we’ve talked about the drive that someone needs to have because for themselves, what about the?

33:01
other side of that, what about what you’re actually doing for the patient? I mean, give me, you know. What I love to ask is you know whether you saw this through one of your reps? Or maybe back in the day when you were one? When did you see someone go through something that you stole, that you said, whoa, this is what I’m doing. I’m changing lives in these ways. Yeah, so when I started as a rep, I was in lasers and worked for a small startup called OmniGuide.

33:27 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
We had a CO2 laser. That was flexible, so what that did was somebody who had, say, a tongue cancer or a throat cancer instead, two layers. That was flexible, so what that did was somebody like a, say, a tongue cancer or a throat cancer, instead of having an open procedure, because the surgeon now can take the laser energy through the mouth, cut the tumor out right and save a whole lot of pain and a whole lot of recovery because you don’t have this huge open, you know, wound right, so it’s a lot more efficacious that way. And so then you see patients recovering faster, right, they’re cancer free quicker. And I was like, okay, we’re doing something really good in that aspect right Now.

33:53
Go like 180 down in the aesthetics world. It’s like, okay, this is just superficial. People want to look better, but actually, you know, it’s a little deeper than that, because when people look good, they feel good right. And especially after COVID, there’s a whole mental health aspect to this as well too, right. And so, if you know, not happy with how they look, it’s going to have a drastic impact on how they feel and how they go about their life right. So they can do a simple procedure with low down time and make themselves feel better and look better.

34:19
It has that, you know, mental health thing too. So you know, at the end of the day, for most what we do, that’s that’s, that that’s our why we’re really helping patients and then our customers, our providers, really helping them, so, and the more patients they can help, the better the business gets too, and you’re able to help people as well too. So it’s a different, you know, area of the spectrum, right, it’s like you know treating cancer patients on one side, and then it’s like, okay, maybe patients feel better. You know about that as well too. And you know, and functionality of areas of the body and also just aesthetically looking better, right, and so that has a huge impact too.

35:00 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Wow, Okay, Tell us what are the top two to three things that just aren’t pleasant about the job that just comes with it. You know, if somebody wants to get into this space, this might not I don’t want to use bad words, but I want to make my point this might suck, you know. Tell us what are those two, three things that you just got to know going in that you might experience. You most likely will experience this if you take this job. Yeah, so I think the main thing right.

35:30 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
This is a huge emotional roller coaster. You have really really high highs and really low lows, and so you can’t take things personally. We always tell people look, learn how to ride the little kid’s roller coaster right. The adult roller coaster is really up and down. The little kid one’s not as bad. So get that mind frame. Don’t let yourself get into a bad spot right mentally. Mentally, because it does happen and people get out of it because of the ups and downs like that. So you have to be prepared to deal with it. It’s a lot more than any other part of the industry as far as the high highs and low lows and those low lows you stack them up, you’re just going to be out of the game. So that’s the main thing to be prepared for. That. Don’t take things personally. This job like everything else.

36:09 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Can you give an example of that Before we move on to the next one? Give us an example of what you’re talking about right now.

36:14 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
So say you did all the work, you did everything right and you’re into a deal and the customer you know, at the end of the day, when they buy the clothes, they don’t close, they buy something else from a competitor. That happens all the time. Or you know, it’s weird because in this industry the competition knows when you’re getting close to close the deal and they come out of the woodwork they start trying to blow up your deal. They’ll do anything they want to stop you getting a sale, not necessarily them selling something, but they want to stop you. So that’s a really low low when you’re almost at the finish line and something like that happens, right, and your customer buys something else. Or we see a lot too is if they can’t qualify for credit. It’s like I want to buy your stuff, Derek, I know you do, but can you?

36:51
And so if they don’t have the creditworthiness to do that you get down to the finish line and you can do your job properly by qualifying early and it’s like, well, I can’t sell this to you and so that sucks too right. That’s really tough because you spend all that time and all that effort and energy and doing all the right things, right and then just to be shot down like that.

37:09 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay, that’s one, give us, not give it one or two more yeah.

37:12 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
So I think you know here you gotta be super active, right again, like out every day. We don’t take office days, right, this is five days a week in the streets knocking on doors. You know we work in our cars, right, we have our meeting and stuff like that.

37:24
But you have to be okay with, like you know, monday at 8 am I’m driving into the territory, I’m doing my things and be super active like that. If you’re the kind of person doesn’t want to be, always, you know, bounce around and that’s something to take consideration to and you’re gonna be uncomfortable. A lot, you know, in the hospital job. A lot of times you would, you know, you’re comfortable in one or two hours. They go to a lot of your businesses there, right, you’re having conversations. This is not like that.

37:46 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
It’s something new every day something new every day, meaning you talk to us, me as in a new account that doesn’t know you get, or something else?

37:55 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
yes, you assume that most accounts don’t know who you are yet. Right, maybe I want to one ball, yeah, but you’re not going to the same accounts all the time. You’re gonna find new business and so you know we have a territory maps. We know kind of, you know a good idea of. You know what opportunity is and map it out and go, do it right and you should be able to see everybody once a quarter in your territory and so after that, you know, over time you build some relationships, sure, but you know you have to be doing different things every day, you know, to grow that business and grow the pipeline finding new opportunities sure how often are you growing?

38:26 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
I mean other situations where you see the potential for a business, a med spa, spa or a practitioner and you’re like, okay, you know what, because of where they are, they’re new, they’re going to be the next big thing in like a year or two. I’m going to be part of this process. Does that happen often?

38:42 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
It happens all the time and that’s what we think, and that’s the way all the competition thinks too. So they’re getting hit from everybody. Everybody has that same mentality. So it’s not like something that’s, so, you know, revolutionary. That’s going to set them apart. So you know, yeah, there is that.

38:57 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
But it’s everybody’s doing the same, and then you know how entrenched are you getting. You know, I was talking to a spine surgeon and he was sharing with me how a lot of the reps. I I mean, they’re hanging out Like they’re truly hanging out Weekends, their kids know each other and the reps are almost acting like spine surgeons without actually doing surgery. So you know, talk to us about it. What does it look like in capital laser aesthetics?

39:19 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
Yeah, so it’s a little different. I mean, you have that a little bit, but you know, when you’re a spine rep, you spend a lot of time with that surgeon, right, you’re in the case with them, 40 hours a week with them. So that’s going to evolve over time. It should right. Doing this, you’re not having that kind of time. You may spend a little bit of time with a customer, you know, maybe you have a friendly cocktail with them or something like that, but it’s not like you know, you’re becoming family friends. It could happen, but not at the same clip as you see, like in spine sales.

39:43
You know, now would you say that the reps that do do that successful or not really? I mean, you know, in this business, one friendly client is not going to make your number, right, they’re just not going to buy all they need. So if you spend all your time with them, you know you’re going to shoot yourself in the foot. But if you’re just a very personal person that makes good relationships, yeah, it will help you. Sure, when that customer needs something, they’re going to call you first, sure, so you can’t rely on it 100%, but it’s definitely a positive thing. You can’t always be thinking about hey, where’s the next new opportunity?

40:16 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
coming from Got it, got it. Now I want to get back to that. 60%, 70%. I mean that’s a lot, that’s high. Who’s doing that? Is that new people that had no idea that are coming from other medical sales saying, oh my gosh, this is not it? Is that new people that just had no medical sales and oh my gosh, this is not it? Is that new people that just had no medical sales come in saying that’s not it? Or is that just people that have been in saying I don’t want to do this anymore? I mean, where is the what’s driving that high of a churn rate?

40:40 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
so I will say all three of those things you mentioned. Sometimes performance issues sometimes there’s a lot of poaching in the industry as well as other companies will take people from. You know other companies, competitors, right. You offer them a little bit better compensation plan or whatever it is. The grass is not always greener. We have a lot of people come back. Myself it was my second tour at Luminous, right. I had worked at a band that came back. We have reps that go to other where and come back right, because in this world the experience, of the industry experience, is very valuable, so we know that person can do it and so we know that person can do it and so we’re more likely to take somebody from industry and knowing that they’ll probably last. But still there’s 20 different reasons why the turnover is like that and I think all those things the three you mentioned and the couple I did are the main reasons. Sure.

41:24 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Well, let’s get a little bit to you. So I want to know this whole thing about you starting here, and you kind of spoke to it. It’s rare to find a talented person in this space, it sounds like, and you were able to work for a company, have a whole bunch of other experiences and come back as if you never left Before we get there. Though, how did you learn about this? You know, take us to college, was it like? Oh, I learned about aesthetics and I’m gonna be a laser aesthetics rep, was it? I wanna be in medical sales, I just wanna be in sales. What were you thinking senior year, right before you hit the working?

41:55 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
world. I see you now speaking, man. What the hell am I gonna do? I had no idea, right. I didn’t wanna be a salesperson. For me that was like a bad four letter word. I wanted to do something more clinical, professional, but I went to.

42:06
Arizona State got a business degree went to recruiting trips and I started you know I started eating jay gallowine, that kind of traditional, good b2b experience there that if I almost three years got promoted a couple times, you know. Back then I was, like you know, just perusing job boards. I heard about med device, you know, in pharma. I was like, oh, the money is there. So I was chasing money. Back then I got a job it was technical health care right for kendall healthcare which became convenient, which became electronic and that was my first for way into medtech right and I was good like stepping stone job where covered the entire hospital. So the more nurses had a couple new things you can do a lot of contract base. You know that couple years and I was like no one do something more specific. And that’s when I got the start call army guy knows more, or war. And then from there I spent, like you know, my entire life in the OR right doing all kinds of things all over the place.

42:51
Yeah, so I never, really said, oh, I wanted to be in sales or farm or aesthetics. It just kind of came that way and I got my first case of aesthetics on my first uh tour with luminous. I was more or based with some lasers into the, the or, but we also crossed over a little bit in the space as well too. Um, and then luminous sold off their their hospital division, surgical division, a couple years ago to boston scientific, so now they’re just primarily an aesthetics company. They have a vision division as well too.

43:20
Um, so I was like I like the private practice kind of stuff. You don’t have to deal with all the bureaucracy in the hospital, right? The or for me was not as fun as it was back in 2005 and safe and where you can have free reign. There’s always, you know, regulation and they’ve been about representing the worst after covid, yeah, and then socially shut down. So like I like mixing it up and being doing things right, and so in the private practice world it gave me more an opportunity to do that. So I wanted to make that change. And then when luma’s called me back and say, hey, there, we need somebody in the west, I’m like, oh well, I can go full force into this. You know, this aesthetics machine, this monster, that it is what it is, but it’s fun.

43:55
It is definitely a different business than maybe I expected a bit and what I had, you know, previously experienced in the hospital world. But I had some experience in chiropractic and some of my things before, so I wasn’t completely caught off guard. So talk to us, okay. So, so you know, I want to hear about your, I want to, I want to hear what happened when you took it out of Luminous and then you came back to Luminous, like what, I was really getting burnt out in the hospital deal, hospital sale, right, sure. And so I wanted to do something more chiropractic.

44:36
I stayed in lasers. I went to a dental company, a dental laser company, where it was dentists, small business owners outside the hospital doing that. What was that like? It was good, it was fun. It was a lot similar to what I’m doing now, right, so I’re selling lasers to small, to doctors who have small business owners, right? So, again, it’s a lot of activity though, but your sales cycle is 30 days, right? Maybe 60 days on demand, as opposed to nine, 12 months in the hospital, right, where you have so many decision makers and nobody makes a decision in the hospital, right? Right, you’re talking to the decision maker. Maybe there’s kind of how I went this direction outside of the hospital, more into private practice Got it Okay, so continue.

45:20 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Went to private practice.

45:21 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
You were out there for a little while and then Yep, and then after that I did work for a company called Sotero where I was a VP of global sales, and that was more of a startup. It was kind of back in the hospitals, was different, but it was an opportunity that I can take a much bigger jump in my career and really have a lot of say with the whole commercial organization. How did you find out about this opportunity?

45:40
yes, I was actually doing a little like consulting work with the, the SEO. I did a consultancy practice for a couple years, like during COVID as well too, and so my work was, you know, really small startups kind of running their commercial organization, setting it, it up, doing their sales, training, stuff like that, their playbooks and all that. And so I was working with the CEO. We needed a little bit of help. And then he’s like hey, we got a round of funding, do you wanna come over full time and be the VP? So I was like that’s a good opportunity.

46:03
So I did that, made some chart changes, right, and they really changed everything. They brought all their own people in, and so I see the writing on the wall there, and the timing when Luminous ended up calling me was just perfect. I’m like you know what? This is not sustainable. Now it’s become a very toxic culture in this company, and I know Luminous, the president’s been there for a long time. I know the VP, the good people, good products, right, that’s a good company to work for. So I’m like let’s do that.

46:33 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So, I got to tell us, because you founded a company, you were then a VP of another company and then you went to managing a team. Yeah, what’s different? What’s different now, with those kinds of experiences, how were you managing a team compared to when you were doing it however many years ago?

46:53 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
So I think the main thing is like I’m more like big picture now. I think when everybody you know comes from rep to manager we’re all guilty of this. We become super rep at first. Right, you’re trying, you’re digging into too much in the weeds, you’re in every layer. Right it’s you’re not developing a team because you’re doing it and it’s not sustainable because it’s only you.

47:10
So I think over the years, you know, it’s like look, what are the main outputs I look for, right, and really it’s okay. What revenue are you bringing in? And what’s your pipeline, pipeline creation, and really all the inputs. Like I don’t care how many calls you do a day, like I don’t care if you’re, you know, making 10 cold calls or 20 or all those things. Like I care about those things. Outputs aren’t being hit, they don’t dig deeper. So for me it’s like what’s the general direction from leadership to me? How do I manage a team towards that? How do I motivate and inspire them to get there and what do they need from me to help them get there? Right, and that’s really how I manage now. So I’m still much of a team player and a coach, but you know, I don’t micromanage.

47:48
I don’t micromanage, I, I do it. So I was like look, here’s your goal. You’re a grown-up, you’re a professional. These are things we expect from you. Go do it. And if you don’t do it, then I’m going to ask why. And if that’s the change we needed, then that’s what’s going to happen, and so that will happen sooner than later. For the most part, you don’t want to keep a person who’s not doing the job on the team for a long time. You got to. It’s our job to root that out, sure, and then make that change.

48:12 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So you know we’re in California, the best place in the world. I agree, and so you got 10 reps.

48:19 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
Yeah.

48:20 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Are?

48:20 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
they all are they all in California. So my region now is California, oregon, washington, alaska. Okay, this is like the smallest piece of dirt I’ve ever managed in my life. So I usually have like nine or 20 states or the whole country or whatever right. So it’s like up to Alaska, washington, oregon, a bit Now.

48:39 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
would you say that California is the hub for this kind of work or no, it’s nationwide and everyone is kind of doing their thing as far as aesthetics.

48:46 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
Yeah, I think you know it’s nationwide right. Obviously, the more popular states you know the Floras, new York, new Jersey, you’re going to have a lot more of it. I think in the middle it’s probably less of the stuff you know. People think, oh, you know LA and Hollywood and all this stuff. You know plastic surgery, you know, and Beverly Hills, yeah, there is a lot of that, but there’s opportunity everywhere. I mean, you know some of our best reps are, you know, in the south right or you know places where you would think they’re not.

49:15 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
How many, if ever, reps have said you know what? I’m going to go open up my own med spa.

49:21 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
More than I thought. So I know for a fact. You know on our team that’s like an end goal for reps, right, it’s get in, make some money, learn the business right, and maybe you know, down the line, like nobody wants to sell lasers forever, it’s hard to do. Opening a med spa is, you know, a business alum take? Yeah, have you seen it in process happening?

49:41 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Yeah, we have some people that do that They’ll miss.

49:42 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
Pause on the side also. Okay, the clinical side, Right. So there is a lot of you know. Carry over there.

49:47 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Also your company, so so luminous, encourages it.

49:50 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
I don’t encourage it but we have like per diems that work for us and maybe the full time job is running their own. You know, work through some stuff with them as well too. Like this doesn’t want you to have another job right, especially in sales, you gotta. But when people you know maybe transition out of sales, they’ll go open up their own mess pop. Yeah, that happens wow.

50:08 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Okay, let’s take it back to you now. You know you’ve had an amazing career. You’re clearly a high performer in the most brutal right my our limited opinion but in the most brutal device sales in the world. How do you do it, man? You know what. What grounds you? Do you have a family? Do you know? Do you wake up at a certain time? Do you have a regimen you follow? Give us a little bit of how Derek gets it done.

50:29 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
Yeah. So I’m very much like when the morning, when the day, right. But on the opposite, I’m not a night person.

50:41
I get 8 pm and turn into a pumpkin so I get everything done during the day, right, and so I think that fuels a lot Like people who get up and just get going usually have a lot of success in goals like this, right, and then don’t sweat the small stuff, things are going to happen, right.

50:55
Nothing’s ever perfect and I think over time I’ve learned to realize that you can’t dwell on those things. Let them happen, deal with them when you can, but keep focused on the main goals. Let the noise be background it’s all noise anyway and just limit your focus to just certain important things, right, and if you do that then you can, I think, have success over time and then the job is a bit more easier to take because, again, the emotional highs and lows are crazy, right, you have to be able to really control that. You know and be person right now. You know I’m single, don’t kids or anything, so I have a lot of liberties to both to do what I want to do. But I would say the majority of people are family people sure, so you saying that you know I love how you’ve highlighted that you got to be.

51:38 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Someone knows how to handle the emotional highs and emotional lows and kind of live, maybe not stoic, but just kind of hang out in the in-between, uh, to keep you in a good, positive space and do what you can control. With that being said, you know, are you, are you like taking trips to tibet and hanging out with monks? Are you are? Are you meditating every day? I mean, how do you keep yourself in that space? It’s funny, well.

52:00 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
I don’t go to Tibet, but I do travel a lot. Right, it’s all solo trip or just get out of you know the crazy world, shut it down for a few days or a week. Right, take your time when you can during the day and even like chop up the days Like I take walks a lot get in the sun, like just get clear their head, right. So let’s take 15 minutes, go walk in the sunshine, walk around the park, whatever it is right, and come back and fresh, like that’s important thing. And even if you’re, you know, in the field all day, the sales rep, do that. Right, you know you’re gonna get kicked in the mouth 20 times before lunchtime in this job, so 20 times you hear that folks 20 times for lunchtime.

52:41 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
That’s the third.

52:41 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
I’ve never heard that, that’s like you gotta be able to understand that and keep in a positive mindset, because if you’re going in in a negative energy, no one wants to talk to you, right? Remember baseball, this is all a happy place, right? They can’t be a dull or drab practice because nobody wants to be in there, no money right. So you have to be upbeat you. You have to be personable, likable and always in a good mood, and if you’re having a rough day, that’s okay.

53:03 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Clear your mind, reset and then go back at it. I love it, I love it. Okay, what are some of the things?

53:14 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
you want to share with our audience.

53:15 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
We have people that want to get this job. We have people that are in a space that are thinking about getting into this job. We have people that are leading the way. What?

53:22 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
would you?

53:23 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
like to share with the audience.

53:24 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
I think if you’re someone looking to get into medical device or aesthetics, I think the main thing is get some sort of B2B experience first If you want to get into capital. Capital is different than any other position. We have our disposables, consumables, right. It’s a completely different game. So make sure you really understand what it is. Then choose which avenue you like to go for first. Right, if you’re not in the space already, the B2B background is really going to help you get your foot in the door with any XYZ company, right, and once you’re there, you can kind of see what they got going on.

53:57
Do you like the OR? Maybe you don’t want to do Like. Do you want to do a trauma job? Like me personally, I could not do a trauma job right, cannot have a pager and be on call all the time. Right, you want the early mornings, as you’re in the case of the 630. You know. Do you want to call in prior practices? Do you want to?

54:18
You know, network? I’m sure you know people in the industry, right, connect with them again, interview them. Right. Just talk them for five or ten minutes, taking the lunch like. Figure out what they do on a day-to-day basis, their ups and downs and then ask yourself do I want to do that? What we don’t want to do is to all effort and time and get a position and realize two months I’m like I don’t like this, right, this is not for. And then if you keep it, because you have to and you’re kind of miserable, you know, or you’re going to make a change quite, which may be better sometimes, but really figure it out, and then we network because it’s hard to get in the industry.

54:47
I think a lot of people want to do that. Yeah, I mean that network is the most important thing in this industry. Like, talk to people, figure it out. You know who can help you get your foot in the door Right If it’s medical aesthetics. Also, be prepared that you’re probably going to have to start at an empty level position.

55:05 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
That’s going to be heavy cold calling and you’re going to have to learn and work your way up and earn promotions to get to like a full line rep as and we have mentors in capital equipment, laser aesthetics and they say that, you know, not all medical sales requires you to have some kind of B2B or business sales experience, but for aesthetics this type that we’re talking about today, almost every mentor that works with us says yeah, for this one you kind of have to. With that being said, though, I’ve met aesthetic capital equipment reps that actually did not have the typical B2B experience, and some of them didn’t even have bachelor’s degrees. What would you need to see If you met a candidate that had no B2B sales experience, has a bachelor’s degree but no B22b sales experience? What would you need to see from them to make them say you know what?

56:02 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
I think I just might take a chance on this yeah, it’s tough, right, because it is a big chance and there’s a big risk, right, and so you know, I told you by the turnover here. So it’s very difficult to you don’t want to make a bad decision and we don’t have a whole lot of time really to develop people. As other companies start, right, they want to train and develop companies and they bring people in from the outside and you have all this time and they really have a whole division for that, right, like we don’t have that. So when we’re looking for somebody, like there are some hard requirements to look for. So I don’t think that even like a resume would come to my desk if it didn’t have B2B on it.

56:35
We have very specific on what we’re looking for Period. We have internal recruiters, we have external recruiters. They know our and this is for all the companies our requirements, and so they’re not going to put somebody in front of me who doesn’t check all these boxes. Now. Does it happen? Sure, but I think you would need to have somebody in network make an introduction then, and then it’s okay, and then you’re still going to be compared to candidates and you know it is a hiring manager’s responsibility put the best person the best fit that we can think into that position at that time. And if you’re going to forget, somebody’s got you know a couple years B to be a couple years industry, more likely than not they’re gonna take that person just because the risk profile is lower we know this person can hit the ground running.

57:15
You don’t have to train them on how to do the job. They know what it is. Sure, the tech and the clinical stuff, that’s the easy part. We’ll train them on that. But it’s really. Do they have the mentality? Do they understand what it is? You know, when I say B2B it’s like a copy of Java. It’s a great foundation because you’re out in the field all day. It’s all not the same right. So I would think if you don’t have it, you don’t need that. If you’re going in, you know, say selling contractual stuff, you know, for a big company like a MedLine or a distributor, you don’t need that right. It’s more like a top management which you know can be learned.

57:58 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
This you know, the tech. How fast does the tech move in this space? Is it you know what was happening two years ago is completely obsolete, or is it more like you know these therapies are out for a while and you just keep working at them and they get slowly refined? What does the tech look like? The advancement of the tech look like in capital.

58:19 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
I think both right. So you have like your core traditional modalities and treatments and technologies have been around for a couple of decades. They just, you know, get improved over time and it’s kind of like you know the fallback on everything and then you always want to have the new stuff right, people always need something new, you know, and it could be sometimes it’s kind of gimmicky, right like there’s, you know they’re, you know recycling old technology, put a new you know box on it and pretty much marking all behind it and it’s like, okay, drive it that way. But I would say every year or so you go see some new things at some sort of level of being like we don’t really legit or not.

58:54 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
So you get both so you know, I guess this is, for example, this is, let’s talk Luminous. Are there technologies that you know med spas and plastic surgeons are clamoring for, they can’t wait to see be released, or is that not? Does that type of thing not happen, as often? Speak a little bit to that.

59:13 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
I think you know Luminous is more like we’re known as the you know gold serotonin for like CO2, lasers and IPL inventing these technologies and so once you have one of those, you don’t really need anymore. And then Luma’s also how we do stuff too right. So I don’t think anybody’s ever clamoring, okay, what’s coming out next? And you have it. As much that happens very rarely. It’s more like, okay, you know, the opportunities are there. A lot of business owners don’t really know yet what’s coming, so they rely on the reps to educate them and say, okay, we have this coming. And there’s this technology, this is this, this is a new treatment you can market to your patients. Right, this technology might bring new patients into your practice. Like those are the things and what’s the device behind it? At the end of the day, I don’t think that customers really care what the product is they really care about like this is gonna make me money or my patients gonna like it.

59:56
Does it work? It going to hurt them or are they going to pay for it Right At the end of the day, it could be a toaster oven.

01:00:01 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
They don’t care right as long as those boxes are checked. That’s what we’re doing, right.

01:00:04 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
Now on the traditional tech like the CO2 is very important. That’s a very. It’s a class four laser right. It’s very highly technical and clinical. You want pick this book too.

01:00:17 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Got it. Okay, we got one more thing to do. Derek, are you ready? I’m ready. This is the lightning round, okay, all right, I’m going to ask you four questions. You have less than 10 seconds to answer. First question what’s the best book you’ve read in the last six months?

01:00:32 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
Pitch, anything a sales book by Oren Kloff.

01:00:35 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
That’s a good sales book Okay, one more time. The author Owen Clough. I believe Owen Clough yeah, that’s maybe the show notes. I haven’t heard that. Let me check that one out. Okay, best TV show or movie you’ve seen in the last six months.

01:00:50 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
Six months. I love Top Gun Maverick. I know it’s been a couple years, but I watch it like every other week.

01:01:05 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
What’s it called top gun maverick, the new top gun top. Is that a tv show? Or the movie the new one? Oh yeah, that was good, that was. They even had val cameron. I was so shocked.

01:01:09 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
Okay, okay, best meal you’ve had in the last six months, hold on, we want the state city restaurant and item okay, so I do do not remember the restaurant, but I was in barcelona, spain, in april and I had paella on the beach and it blew my mind, so I wanted to go to Spain and have some paella, right, and I don’t know where the restaurant was called, but it was perfect and it was probably the best meal I’ve had in the last six months.

01:01:30 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
Wow, if we looked it up would we most likely find it, or there’s no way.

01:01:34 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
There’s so many places that serve paella in Barcelona. So I mean, maybe if I had a map I could find it again.

01:01:39 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
But Okay, okay, all right, Maybe folks, maybe we might get there. We’ll see. And then, last but not least, what’s the best experience you’ve had in the last six months?

01:01:48 – Derek Sanz (Guest)
I think travel it’s kind of my thing right, so I like to go a lot of places. I’ve been to 39 countries and many experiences I can. So I took my last trip. I went to Barcelona and Andorra and Malta and a lot of my travel is based on books. I read and interesting places, interesting things that happened in history and I’m going to go see them for myself. That’s why I went to Malta. There was a big seizure in 1565, all that. So I wanted to go see that stuff. So for me I know it’s kind of nerdy, it’s kind experience the last six months that’s awesome, Derek.

01:02:18 – Samuel Adeyinka (Host)
It was awesome having you on the show. Thank you for sharing all your wisdom with us. We can’t wait to see what you do next. Thanks, I appreciate it, man. Thanks so much. It was really fun being here, absolutely, and that was Derek Sands Powerful stuff, I mean gosh. You know, what I loved about this episode is how much you can do in this space, right, you can be someone that makes a great income, change people’s lives.

01:02:44
You can be someone that makes a ridiculous income a million dollars a year and change people’s lives and still retreat when you’re done with it, open up your own practice as a med spa and be a businessman with a business you’ve literally spent your professional life learning about. I mean, it doesn’t get much cooler than that as far as career plans and a career trajectory go and Derek is clearly he’s living a lot of that dream. If you’re someone that wants to be in medical sales and you want to be in capital aesthetics laser aesthetics you already know what I’m going to say. You know we work with people like Derek. We have mentors like Derek, people that will speak with you, train you, help you get into these types of positions If this is where you belong. And not only that we’re going to take the time to really find out if you’re the right person for this kind of position, and we’re going to do all these things in our program, the medical sales career builder. Go to evolve your success dot com right now and fill out the application. You’re going to go through a few interviews and we’re going to see if our program, the Medical Sales Career Builder, is the program that’s going to change your life and put you in a position like the people on Derek’s team.

01:03:54
As always, we do our best to bring you guests that are doing things differently in the medical sales space, so make sure you tune in next week for another episode of the Medical Sales Podcast. I hope you enjoyed today’s episode and remember I have a customized and personalized program that gets you into the medical technology industry as a sales professional or any type of role for that matter. Become a top performer in your position and masterfully navigate your career to executive level leadership. Check out these programs and learn more at EvolvesSuccesscom by visiting our site, filling out an application schedule some time with one of our account executives and allowing us to get you where you need to be. Stay tuned for more awesome content with amazing interviews on the Medical Sales Podcast.